The Gaming Den

More or less. They never, ever gave out comps of the Limited Edition to freelancers.

Considering the cluster fuck that went down in printing those books and getting them out to the people who paid for them (and waited a year to see them) it's a shock any of us even got one.

Well Hell, what do you know O.o
http://rabenwelten.wordpress.com/2011/0 ... un-online/

Frank?
Bobby?
Anybody else wanna comment on this?

Catalyst does not own any of the digital rights. So them working with Catalyst at all is a courtesy - and of course an attempt to get around the really bad press that the FPS got for being extremely not-Shadowrun in basically every way that mattered.

I'm not aware of anyone being brought in for their ancient canon council, and suspect that it's like two guys. It wouldn't surprise me over much if they got Weisman to give them pointers, considering that he's Smith & Tinker and they are required to coordinate with Smith & Tinker for the digital rights.

-Username17

It's some German thing. I have no idea what's going on with that crowd these days.

Ancient, if you've wondered where the Shadowrun True Form Spirit was, you've just answered your own question.

Dawn of the Artifacts 4 "New Dawn" is out, it seems. Anyone got it yet?

Seems to be horrible, if the complaints on the german official shadowrun board are any indication . .

Yeah. I'm not interested in second-hand opinions.

Fucks wrote:Yeah. I'm not interested in second-hand opinions.

Then get a hold of it yourself to form a first hand opinion?

I don't want to spend money on it.

At this point, what are you expecting?

It's not like they are suddenly going to get their shit together and start producing quality product. They've had a year and more to do that and now we're in a sea of colorful but ultimately lacking PDF releases and a book of poorly crafted stats for set piece characters. Then they squeeze out the forth part of a set of product that saw it's major writers walk away with the ending after the second and you're wondering if it's good?

When has CGL given you any reason to believe that anything they've done in the last year is worth while. I'm actually really wondering if there's anyone who'll stand by one of their recent products. I know some of the fans out there who still care check this board from time to time. I want to hear someone who doesn't freelance for CGL stand up for something they've done.

For example, one of the writers seems to not have gotten the memo that enhanced artwinculation does not work like it did in SR3 anymore . .

Stahlseele wrote:For example, one of the writers seems to not have gotten the memo that enhanced artwinculation does not work like it did in SR3 anymore . .

If that's the major complaint you have about the adventure...

Otakusensei wrote:At this point, what are you expecting?

It's not like they are suddenly going to get their shit together and start producing quality product. They've had a year and more to do that and now we're in a sea of colorful but ultimately lacking PDF releases and a book of poorly crafted stats for set piece characters. Then they squeeze out the forth part of a set of product that saw it's major writers walk away with the ending after the second and you're wondering if it's good?

When has CGL given you any reason to believe that anything they've done in the last year is worth while. I'm actually really wondering if there's anyone who'll stand by one of their recent products. I know some of the fans out there who still care check this board from time to time. I want to hear someone who doesn't freelance for CGL stand up for something they've done.

Shit, I totally agree with that.

Fucks wrote:

Stahlseele wrote:For example, one of the writers seems to not have gotten the memo that enhanced artwinculation does not work like it did in SR3 anymore . .

If that's the major complaint you have about the adventure...

nope.
it's just quite possible that there are several NPC's with wrong stats for example.

Otakusensei wrote:I'm actually really wondering if there's anyone who'll stand by one of their recent products. I know some of the fans out there who still care check this board from time to time. I want to hear someone who doesn't freelance for CGL stand up for something they've done.

Don't worry. The official board is still full of sycophants and the soulless.

Did Dumpshock lose the suck-up attitude?

Otakusensei wrote:At this point, what are you expecting?

It's not like they are suddenly going to get their shit together and start producing quality product. They've had a year and more to do that and now we're in a sea of colorful but ultimately lacking PDF releases and a book of poorly crafted stats for set piece characters. Then they squeeze out the forth part of a set of product that saw it's major writers walk away with the ending after the second and you're wondering if it's good?

When has CGL given you any reason to believe that anything they've done in the last year is worth while. I'm actually really wondering if there's anyone who'll stand by one of their recent products. I know some of the fans out there who still care check this board from time to time. I want to hear someone who doesn't freelance for CGL stand up for something they've done.

Standing up for CGL around this place is a tall order. (Pages and pages earlier, possibly even in another thread, there was a good analogy about putting your head in a fire and being surprised to find yourself burned.)

Fuchs wrote:Did Dumpshock lose the suck-up attitude?

Compared to this place, Dumpshock loves CGL. Compared to the official forums, Dumpshock hates CGL.

Wesley Street wrote: Don't worry. The official board is still full of sycophants and the soulless.

Normally, when I see posts like this I file them away to the back of my mind or dismiss them outright because I'd rather form my own opinions when it comes to something I can so easily investigate myself. But in this case, I'm just going to take his word on it because Catalyst is apparently too dumb to realize that under no circumstances should a board focused on a single RPG ever need eighteen different sub-forums. I registered and posted a couple times and never went back, because seriously, that is some incompetence right there.

Whipstitch wrote:Normally, when I see posts like this I file them away to the back of my mind or dismiss them outright because I'd rather form my own opinions when it comes to something I can so easily investigate myself. But in this case, I'm just going to take his word on it because Catalyst is apparently too dumb to realize that under no circumstances should a board focused on a single RPG ever need eighteen different sub-forums. I registered and posted a couple times and never went back, because seriously, that is some incompetence right there.

There is worse.

I can't decide whether the common thread between those companies is stupidity or a desire to shield themselves from criticism via tampering with the signal-to-noise ratio. It's probably one of those somewhere in between things.

Whipstitch wrote:I can't decide whether the common thread between those companies is stupidity or a desire to shield themselves from criticism via tampering with the signal-to-noise ratio. It's probably one of those somewhere in between things.

In Paizo's case, it's simple competence. The forums (and, indeed, PR in general) are run by people with other jobs. As a consequence, it's slapdash.

There's a lot of talk in IMHO about paying people to do things to get results you can't get from amateurs or people with other jobs. It seems like an obvious insight. Unsurprisingly, it applies to public relations, too.

Whipstitch wrote:Normally, when I see posts like this I file them away to the back of my mind or dismiss them outright because I'd rather form my own opinions when it comes to something I can so easily investigate myself. But in this case, I'm just going to take his word on it because Catalyst is apparently too dumb to realize that under no circumstances should a board focused on a single RPG ever need eighteen different sub-forums. I registered and posted a couple times and never went back, because seriously, that is some incompetence right there.

An educated guess tells me that the official Shadowrun board is the result of a common school of RPG forum design propagated by Wildfire and Posthuman Studios. CthulhuTech has released, what, seven books total and nothing in the past year? Their board is just as fragmented. I wouldn't chalk it up to incompetence but rather, in CGL's case, misreading the market by assuming product interest would be so high several sub-fora would be needed.

IMO the SR official board's most egregious offense is their thumbs up/thumbs down popularity system. I doubt Catalyst is clever enough to realize it but it keeps your average gamer toeing the party line. No one wants to be viewed as an outsider. I pointed out China doesn't actually exist in SR and that Tolstoy was actually in the public domain and my "rep score" took a hit. *sigh*

I search for posts that contain actual product criticism and other than Gaming Den folk and Patrick Goodman there is little-to-none. Typical responses to a crap product is "well, you can always house rule it" or "it's pretty good, I guess."

Edit: grammar error.

The official forums are indeed a mess, and I've always found the rep score to be a little culty. Jason wanted a positive feedback echo chamber, and with a significant amount of help he built one. It's the reason why I really don't give a shit about it or trust anything posted there. You can't.

The Den may be a bunch of short sighted dicks who have no self control and a reputation only slightly better than the IRS, but at least it's honest. There's no incentive not to be.

I was just wondering if anyone in the echo chamber even cared enough anymore to step away and see what the kids who don't drink the Kool-Aid think. I guess I got my answer.

Shadowrun is fucked. Old news is still old.