So since Dom 3 is being discussed

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:03 am

AI cheats at every level above normal.

Details here: http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/AI

Frank Trollman said to me when I asked that beating a game full of Impossible AIs is part of being a good player

The discussion

[22:28] FT: I turn it up to Impossible and almost always win
[22:29] FT: Being able to beat the AI at impossible when there are a large number of them is a prerequisite to calling yourself good at the game.
[22:29] FT: Because that is only a moderate challenge.
[22:31] FuriousPuffin: AI cannot manage the late game despite overwhelming supply advantage?
[22:32] FT: The AI cannot manage complex troop arrangements or directed research

What is the highest difficulty of AI it is reasonable to play against before going to MP? Does the AI "cheat" at some point?

Meh, I just cut across after a normal game.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:03 am

Orion wrote:What is the highest difficulty of AI it is reasonable to play against before going to MP? Does the AI "cheat" at some point?

The AI 'cheats' as soon as you go above normal. At no point does it play any better, it only gets more resources for no reason. This does increase the early-game threat, but the long-term is still a bad joke.

K · Post by K » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:40 am

Orion wrote:So I've finally won a game against normal AIs (never lost one, but gotten bogged down and lost interest). I was playing Kailasa, and won via massed blessed sacreds right around the time my late-game shenanigans were starting to come online. Clearly I need more challenging opponents. Questions:

What is the highest difficulty of AI it is reasonable to play against before going to MP? Does the AI "cheat" at some point?

The AI gets more points for their Pretender the higher the scale, so they tend to have really great production and masses of troops.

Orion wrote:Rapid expansion tends to lead me to a war on two fronts almost immediately. In MP games I assume diplomacy takes care of this, or is it considered best to keep a layer of indeps between yourself an enemies. I often don't get around to conquering indepedent knights because my policy of "attack tribals and militias first" siphon all my gold to province defense and border wars.

The computer is quite good at taking out indies, so there isn't much you can do about getting attacked by two AI.

Orion wrote:Related: Sieging capitals takes an unreasonably long time, and I can't build province defense while I'm sitting there. In the meantime I'm vulnerable to other players and to his own armies from elsewhere. What should I be doing to KO faster and how do I stay safe doing it?

The trick to breaking castles is to use overwhelming amounts of chaff, or magic. The trick is to not take the chaff into the battle
.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:11 am

The sieging mechanic is completely deterministic and based on your siege value and the target castle's defense value and the siege defense of the units inside. The Siege value of the sieging army is compared to the siege defense of the defending army, and the difference is subtracted from the castle defense. When the castle defense hits zero, you can siege.

A siege or siege defense value is (at base) equal to your Strength squared, divided by 100. So when they talk about 1 point of castle defense, they are talking about one turn of one normal human tearing down the wall with no one stopping him. And stronger units are worth a lot more and weaker units a lot less. For example, it take 3 hoburgs to generate 1 point of Siege (strength 6), and a Minotaur lord produces nearly 3 siege points all by himself (strength 17). There are further modifiers to that. Flying units have an extra point of siege attack and defense just for having that ability, and mindless creatures and animals have their siege defense values divided by a large number.

What this means over all is that while Giants produce a lot of siege value, they do not do so particularly efficiently. A Bashanite sieges like 4 units, but he costs 55 gold. Regular indie light infantry sieges like 1 unit a piece and cost 10 bucks each. Of special note in the sieging efficiency race are undead. Even Longdead are Strength 11, which means that despite being extremely cheap and zero maintenance, they siege like 1.2 units each.

-Username17

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:07 pm

Got turns from everyone but Ashdod. New player for Vanheim. 24 hours until I advance.

angelfromanotherpin · Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:06 pm

I thought I sent my turn in within hours of the linkpost. Will send again.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:49 am

Thank you. Turn 7:

http://www.mediafire.com/?1s7415dk1rsicoi

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:56 am

Resolved: Thanks Orca.

Orca · Post by **Orca** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:35 am

Always happy to assist an elder god.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:51 am

The best seiger per money is, of course, LA Man's Magister, who seiges like 16 people, is stealthy, costs a pittence and can be recruited without a lab.

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:48 am

Turn returned.

It might be helpful if people wacked up when they'd returned their turn so our Host can track down people who are expericing email errors etc.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:08 pm

Turn sent.
(What a bad first turn. And thats without starting in Turn 6...)

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:19 pm

Turn in. I found almost 200 bonus resources from magic sites this turn.

Oh wait, I'm Pangaea.

-Username17

K · Post by K » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:41 pm

In.

Oh, and if anyone has blood slaves I'll trade gems 1-1.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:34 pm

Turn was in a while ago. Didn't post then.

Avoraciopoctules · Post by **Avoraciopoctules** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:51 pm

turn 8:
http://www.mediafire.com/?w7rro6a108c10vd

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:45 pm

Turn 8 sent.

I will have Blood Slaves in a couple of turns, and am willing to sell them.

-Username17

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:01 pm

Turn sent.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:23 pm

Turn sent.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:41 pm

Turn sent.

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:09 pm

Turn returned. That was highly unpleasant.

Akula · Post by **Akula** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:18 pm

cthulhu wrote:Turn returned. That was highly unpleasant.

You bump armies with someone?

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:22 pm

Bump and grind baby.

K · Post by K » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:45 pm

In on 8.

cthulhu · Post by **cthulhu** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:15 am

I'm impressed how fast that filled up. Probably have to wait ~7 hours for the afternoon for Orca unless he can play at work.