D&D 5e has failed

Night Goat · Post by **Night Goat** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:42 am

Grek wrote:"Bundle Of Sticks"-ery Realms and "Negro" King respectively. It's a transphobic slur and that's just as fucking bad as a racial or homophobic one.

There's no such thing as a bad word, it all depends on the context. I don't think anyone here is using "tranny" in a hateful way, so if anyone's offended by it they need to grow a thicker skin.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 3:57 am

Night Goat wrote:
Grek wrote:"Bundle Of Sticks"-ery Realms and "Negro" King respectively. It's a transphobic slur and that's just as fucking bad as a racial or homophobic one.
There's no such thing as a bad word, it all depends on the context. I don't think anyone here is using "tranny" in a hateful way, so if anyone's offended by it they need to grow a thicker skin.

You are a fucking idiot. Tranny of the Dragons is being used explicitly to say "you can tell this module sucks because it involves trannies, because trannies suck." That is absolutely a hateful way to use the word.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:15 am

Kaelik wrote:
Night Goat wrote:
Grek wrote:"Bundle Of Sticks"-ery Realms and "Negro" King respectively. It's a transphobic slur and that's just as fucking bad as a racial or homophobic one.
There's no such thing as a bad word, it all depends on the context. I don't think anyone here is using "tranny" in a hateful way, so if anyone's offended by it they need to grow a thicker skin.
You are a fucking idiot. Tranny of the Dragons is being used explicitly to say "you can tell this module sucks because it involves trannies, because trannies suck." That is absolutely a hateful way to use the word.

Whoa. Tranny of the Dragons comes from a typo in this post. While I agree that observers without the needed background are going to read that and think it is derogatory and as such it would be prudent to abandon it (and that Night Goat is completely missing the point), no one here is actually using it in that derogatory capacity. It's just an in-joke about a typo someone made.

erik · Post by **erik** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 5:04 am

DSMatticus wrote:Tranny of the Dragonsis is just a typo that stuck because it was hilarious, and I stand by that typo being hilarious. But I do agree that absent context people who read that might think it is intended as derogatory, and as much as it pains me I am amenable to calls to abandon it.

This is pretty much where I am at. It initially seemed harmless but eventually I wondered if it was the best form of derision that we could be applying.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:49 am

"Tranny" is a "hilarious" typo because "lol, sexism and transphobia." Seriously, we can fucking do better.

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:11 am

Really, having Tyranny in the name of an adventure that sounds like endless DM-cock worship should be too easy.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:13 am

Prak wrote:"Tranny" is a "hilarious" typo because "lol, sexism and transphobia." Seriously, we can fucking do better.

Yeah! And while we're at it, tricking people into saying Mike Hunt is sexist too! Gendered references can only ever be funny if you have some disdain for the referenced gender, and they absolutely 100% cannot be funny because of a contrast between what the speaker intends and what the listener hears or unexpected vulgarity, because everyone knows that neither of those things has ever been funny to anyone at any time.

There are two sane baskets in which eggs belong, and they are very related but slightly distinct:
1) As an obscure gendered reference used to describe an object of criticism, it is unlikely to be understood by readers as anything but pejorative.
2) As a gendered reference used to describe an object of criticism, it is uncomfortably reminiscent of a genuine pejorative usage.

But "you shouldn't laugh at that typo; that's transphobic" is crazy talk. It's just a typo, not the Freudian embodiment of our bigotry.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:46 am

Honestly, I thought that Tranny of Dragons was hilarious because there's nothing threatening about trans people. The implication they are going for is that the dragons are violently oppressing people, but with the typo it just turns into an irrelevant personal choice. You could get the same effect with "The Breakfast Cereal Choices of Dragons" or "The Deeply Personal Existential Poetry of Dragons," but Tranny of Dragons is punchier and also happened organically because of a typographical error.

-Username17

Night Goat · Post by **Night Goat** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:51 am

Kaelik wrote:
Night Goat wrote:
Grek wrote:"Bundle Of Sticks"-ery Realms and "Negro" King respectively. It's a transphobic slur and that's just as fucking bad as a racial or homophobic one.
There's no such thing as a bad word, it all depends on the context. I don't think anyone here is using "tranny" in a hateful way, so if anyone's offended by it they need to grow a thicker skin.
You are a fucking idiot. Tranny of the Dragons is being used explicitly to say "you can tell this module sucks because it involves trannies, because trannies suck." That is absolutely a hateful way to use the word.

It's not being used to say anything, it's just a joke. Anyone who's too thin-skinned to handle a harmless joke shouldn't be on the internet without adult supervision.

Night Goat · Post by **Night Goat** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:55 am

Prak wrote:"Tranny" is a "hilarious" typo because "lol, sexism and transphobia." Seriously, we can fucking do better.

I think transexuals are cool, but "tranny" is an inherently funny word. Don't try so hard to find things to be offended by.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 9:25 am

Also, from a player-facing perspective, Dragons are genderless, so the idea of tranny dragons is even funnier.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:20 pm

I simultaneously disagree with both Prak and Night Goat. On the one hand, when I laughed and called it typo of the year it was for the reasons Frank mentioned--they were going for epic fantasy but in my head I was suddenly imagining a glammed up draconic runway show and that dichotomy is hilarious despite the fact that I have nothing against transexuals OR transvestites. However, with that said, it doesn't take a genius to realize that outside of that context there is little reason why someone should be making a good faith effort to assume we're not being assholes, so why not just make life way simpler and not use an offensive thing if we're not actually trying to be offensive? I'm not a big fan of being all PC, all the time, but at some point you have to acknowledge when it's reasonably likely that you're communicating things you do not intend to.

Krusk · Post by **Krusk** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 4:54 pm

it was a funny typo. You probably shouldn't use it as your general term for the adventure if you don't want to come off as transphobic. If you don't care about coming off as transphobic, go at it.

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:10 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:Honestly, I thought that Tranny of Dragons was hilarious because there's nothing threatening about trans people. The implication they are going for is that the dragons are violently oppressing people, but with the typo it just turns into an irrelevant personal choice. You could get the same effect with "The Breakfast Cereal Choices of Dragons" or "The Deeply Personal Existential Poetry of Dragons," but Tranny of Dragons is punchier and also happened organically because of a typographical error.

-Username17

This, exactly.

Dogbert · Post by **Dogbert** » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:28 pm

While I don't care for PC, I'm just dropping the name and using Tyranny of Neckbeards or someting. Sure as hell I'm not apologizing for finding a typo-derived in-forum joke funny, but this particular joke isn't something worth fighting for.

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:39 am

Isn't the thing with typos to make them worse?

Try Any Dragons? The Ranting of Dragons. Torrent of Dragons. It's Raining Dragons.

There you go. It's raining dragons. Because it rains Kobolds, Bullywugs, and Lizardfolk, which are just like Dragons. Or has this place already used "it's raining dragons" for a book? There's a thread for that somewhere. Seems like a catchy title.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:11 am

I was under the impression the "it's raining" bit was for thematic splats. Doesn't fit as well on an AP.

Heaven's Thunder Hammer · Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:19 am

I thought the tranny remark was funny too. If people want to get all offended over an in joke.... They can go back to rpg.net and commune with other thin skinned social justice warriors where people get banned for this sort of thing. I personally have had enough pc censorship on the Internet.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:01 am

Heaven's Thunder Hammer wrote:I thought the tranny remark was funny too. If people want to get all offended over an in joke.... They can go back to rpg.net and commune with other thin skinned social justice warriors where people get banned for this sort of thing. I personally have had enough pc censorship on the Internet.

Oh look, guy who joined in May of 2014 and has 50 posts is telling us that we don't belong on TGD if we care about things like racism, sexism, and transphobia, because he knows the attitude of TGD better than us.

DSMatticus · Post by **DSMatticus** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:41 am

I really wasn't going to say anything because lazy, but while we're on the topic: the number of times I have seen "PC censorship" condemned and it turned out to be legitimate overreach by the Internet Subcommittee for Inoffensive Language has been very small. It's not so much that the overreach doesn't happen, but that the people who use the term PC as a criticism are almost across the board either bigots, who want to say bigoted things, or idiots, who don't understand why something might or might not be offensive. The people who aren't bigots and do understand why language might be offensive are generally able to articulate themselves without using conservative dogwhistles.

Talking about "PC censorship" is basically like talking about "feminazis" or "SJW's." While there are people on the internet doing stupid things in the name of feminism and equality, in practice the term feminazi is a pejorative label for all feminists that the misogynist echochamber validates by pointing to what they believe are (sometimes correctly) extreme examples, and the term SJW is a pejorative label for all egalitarians that the bigot echochamber validates by pointing to what they believe are (sometimes correctly) extreme examples. You really shouldn't use those words unless you're talking about the phenomenon directly, because they aren't useful and by the power of strawmen, memetics, and language-shaping they are being used (intentionally or otherwise) to turn people against egalitarianism.

Now, I'm not making any assumptions about you as a person. But I am telling you that maybe you should abandon the terminology you've elected to use and learn to express yourself in a way that shows you understand that [cook with a g] is an offensive racial slur and the circumstances in which it will be appropriate to use are few and far between and that backlash against speaking such a term would not be "PC censorship." Shit is complicated, and you should approach the topic like shit is in fact complicated, and the anti-PC thing is specifically designed to be a simplistic warcry you say for any reason at any time in response to any criticism. It exists to protect very bad people from the very bad things they do and say.

Edit: For what it's worth, this is meant to be a non-accusatory heads up. I don't know how well that got through, so I'm just going to say it.

infected slut princess · Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:42 am

Fucking shit.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:27 am

For reference, I'm pretty much with Frank here. Going from Tyranny to Tranny is a pretty hilarious incongruity. I'm not saying you can't laugh at it. My problem is that if you keep writing like that, it eventually stops looking like "Hey, check out this hilarious typo we made." and more like "5e is so bad that I have to compare it to a transvestite to explain how bad it is. PS I am a terrible person."

And since infected slut princess has decided to show up in the thread, I'm going to go ahead and say that the "Whore Out the Dragon Queen" thread has the same issue. It was funny once, but using it jokes about sexual trafficking to mock 5e is pretty fucking tasteless, and you shouldn't do it for the same reason you wouldn't make a holocaust pun out of a module title.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:05 am

My point was more that people, in general, will find the word tranny funny because society treats transexuals (and transvestites) as a joke for a lot of reasons (look at Robot Chicken's allusion to The Crying Game, and a long history of "oh my god! [character] has a dick! and I wanted to fuck them!). Basically, society's use of transexualism in humour is built on a history of sexism (because society treats being female as inferior) and homophobia (because heterosexual men are often treated as being extremely insecure about their sexuality. I like Frank's motivation for the humour in the typo, it being a complete non-sequitor, and don't necessarily think that the majority of people here are sexist shitheads (though... some...), I was just commenting on the usage of transexualism in humour.

tussock · Post by **tussock** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:16 am

DSMatticus wrote:I was under the impression the "it's raining" bit was for thematic splats. Doesn't fit as well on an AP.

It's hot/wet/cold/not/crowded outside, but that was all years ago. I don't think anyone cared enough to call 4e anything. 5e's only going to have APs with an associated player book, so each set's going to need a name, if anyone's going to care enough to talk about them.

Would've helped if I'd had a better name to offer, of course. Or it happened naturally.

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:54 am

When I find Tranny of the Dragons funny, it doesn't mean I want to go out and give some gender-confused person a hard time. Why do people on the internet want to give me a hard time for being amused by things?