So, one of the players for my meat grinder dungeon expressed interest in playing a dragon. I'm cool with this, but as we all know, the "official" ways to play a dragon pretty much suck.
It occurred to me that the CA Warlock could be reskinned to be a dragon, at least as a general template of abilities. How bad would it be to give the warlock the Dragon Subtype chasis (full bab, all good saves, d12 HD) and switch invocations out for the various bullshit abilities that dragons pick up? Horribly unbalanced?
I also wrote up a race with three sub-things to go with this-
Dragon Whelp Racial Traits
All Dragon Whelps have the following traits:
Racial Ability Score Bonuses: +2 Con
Dragon Creature Type
Darkvision 60’ and Low-light Vision
Immune to magical sleep and paralysis
Natural Attacks: Dragon Whelps have 2 claws and a bite attack, which deal damage dependent on their size, outlined below.
Dragon Scales: Dragon whelps are unable to benefit from armor. Instead, they have thick scales which grant them an enhancement bonus to their natural armour equal to 1/3rd character level.
Dragon Lineage: At character creation, a Dragon Whelp selects the variety of dragon they will grow into. This determines their subtypes, immunity and vulnerability, as well as additional class skills.
Level Equivalence- 1: Dragon whelps are equivalent to a first level character. They begin play with one Dragon Hit Die (d12 hit points, +1 BAB, +2 all base saves, 6+Int Mod times 4 skill points. Dragon Whelp class skills are Concentration, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, and Use Magic Device.
Dragon Whelps also gain the traits of one of the following subtypes-
Lesser Dragon Whelp Racial Traits
Racial Ability Score Bonuses: -4 Int and Wis
Tiny: Lesser Dragon Whelps are Tiny creatures, benefiting from a +2 size bonus to attacks and AC and a +8 size bonus to Hide checks, but taking a -8 penalty to Grapple checks.
Natural Attacks: A Lesser Dragon Whelp’s bite attack deals 1d4 damage, and their claws deal 1d3 damage each.
Moderate Dragon Whelp Racial Traits
Racial Ability Score Bonuses: +2 Str, -2 Wis
Small: Moderate Dragon Whelps are Small creatures, benefiting from a +1 size bonus to attacks and AC, and a +4 size bonus to Hide checks, but taking a -4 penalty to Grapple checks.
Natural Attacks: A Moderate Dragon Whelp’s bite attack deals 1d6 damage, and their claws deal 1d4 damage each.
Greater Dragon Whelp Racial Traits
Racial Ability Score Bonuses: +4 Str, -2 Dex, -2 Wis
Medium: Greater Dragon Whelps are Medium creatures, and receive no specific bonuses or penalties from their size.
Natural Attacks: A Lesser Dragon Whelp’s bite attack deals 1d8 damage, and their claws deal 1d6 damage each. Greater Dragon Whelps also have a pair of Wings they may use as natural attacks, dealing 1d4 damage each.
Last edited by Prak on Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Any particular reason you're starting with a Warlock and not a Dragonfire Adept? They already have a breath weapon and dragon-themed invocations, so you wouldn't really need to do much additional work to make them feel really true-dragon-y.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Prak wrote:So, one of the players for my meat grinder dungeon expressed interest in playing a dragon. I'm cool with this, but as we all know, the "official" ways to play a dragon pretty much suck.
So, in the interest of me being a lazy sod, how broken would Dragonfire Adept be if I just gave it the Dragon type chasis (d12 HD, Full BAB, All Good Saves)?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Not very. They'll be borderline unkillable through HP damage (Con mod determines breath DCs), and with Entangling Exhalation (feat) or Slow Breath (breath effect, level5) they will shut hordes the fuck down, but they'll still not outshine a semi-competent sorcerer.
Edit: and with full BAB, they can actually do something single-target, too, which is usually their gaping hole. They'd be sort of Paladin-like - secondary melee combatant.
Last edited by Whiysper on Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
I didn't want to derail Kaelik's Barbarian thread, but he said something in there I was hoping to get some opinions on.
He mentioned the track rules not being very good. I'm curious if that's the general opinion, and what the problems with tracking are (apart from it costing a feat). I don't use the rules very often, but when I do, I just use the DCs and modifiers presented in the book. Assuming the DC isn't high to the point of being unattainable, it seems to be more of a check to see how long tracking takes. I suppose a super long tracking expedition could require a stupid amount of rolls, and that would suck.
Is geedubs actually advancing the storyline of 40K?
Cadia has fallen. Robot Gullyman is waking up. The Spess Furries got their 13th great company back, which is supposed to herald the return of their Tank. Meanwhile Old One-Eye is planning his own little black cursade because Failbaddon ain't getting shit done, even if his main target is, of course, again the Spess Furries Space . .
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Yes, there was like a century timeskip after the fall of Cadia. Other highlights:
-Mortarion has returned to the frontlines and getting shit done!
-Tau have sent not one but two expansion spheres. The first of those had prototype warp engines, they all vanished for some time but are now popping back all around the galaxy.
-Eldar kinda united again, managed to make a new god that seems to be on their side for a change.
-The adeptus custardes and sisters of silence finally stop twiddling their thumbs in the golden toilet and start doing stuff.
-Blood Magpies looted were gifted the banner of devastation from the dark angels.
-Oh, and there's the new shiny primaris sphech merines in case you missed it, 50% more sphech merine than regular sphech merines. Rowboat spent the last century distributing them to every loyalist scum chapter, including the space furries.
FrankTrollman wrote:
Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.
Whether or not that constitutes an advancement is another matter.
EDIT: No, I might be being a bit unfair there. The setting has being getting steadily more meh for a while, GW keeps promising exciting new changes that don't happen.
Then, all of a sudden, they come up with new, and more rubbish fluff and change lots of things by making it a lot more meh in a somewhat new way. So...there's that?
Last edited by Thaluikhain on Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's certainly advancement. Improvement is a different concept.
Kaelik wrote:Because powerful men get away with terrible shit, and even the public domain ones get ignored, and then, when the floodgates open, it turns out there was a goddam flood behind it.
If they really wanted to shake things up, they'd let Magnus actually win and destroy the spess furries getting his grudge gone through revengeance.
And then promptly switch sides back to the imperium, because he always was loyal, he just hated Russ and his poodles.
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
The adeptus custardes and sisters of silence were retconed into being right there with the furries to destroy his hometown and slaughter Magnus people.
Plus Magnus already had a duel with the new Rowboat himself, so clearly red one eye has no love for primarch smurf either.
Let's face it, Magnus may've liked the emprah once, but he always was that curious kid that wanted to take a peek at everything even when directly told not to, and the emprah made it pretty clear there was no place in his new order for that kind of noise.
I personally like that KAYOS finally rises as the top threat of the galaxy, with even the orks at Armageddon teaming up with the humies to defend themselves from daemonic attacks, and whole tyranid hivefleets harvested for blood and skulls.
FrankTrollman wrote:
Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.
Technically, Khorne should not care if the blood spilled is Tyrannid ichor right?
Slaanesh may not care about them, as there is noting there fot it to care about.
Tzeench . . well, they evovle faster than tzeench can mutate things, so they should be right up his alley in that regard, even if they have no concept of:"just as keikaku".
Nurgle . . hmm, difficult . . Imagine the nids trying to consume a pestilence world. A complete hive-fleet gets a tummy ache and indigestion?
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Has anyone made a Shadowrun magic user class in D&D? That is they cast with stamina and their spells fit on a few pages isntead of being a 300+ page book
There was actually a canon Chaos Lord of Khorne some editions ago that was getting bored since humie/eldar/ork skulls kinda all look the same, so when he heard reports about the nids and how they come with all sizes and shapes of skulls, got all hyped up and turned his warband to the closest hive-fleet to start collecting carnifex/mawloc/tyrant/etc skulls. Seems like Khorne was indeed highly pleased by this new line of gifts.
Slaanesh should have some interest in genestealer cults, since they often try to seduce up as many of the locals as possible.
Tzenceeth should indeed have interest in their evolutions/mutations, plus the tyranids tyrants and swarmlord are supposed to be tactical genius pulling complex tactics and plans, not to mention genestealer cults infiltrating and plotting to undermine worlds. When an hivefleet arrives at a place and the population lines up to be consumed with no resistance, the Hivemind certainly goes "just as keikaku".
Nurgle would want to be friends, and the nids may for the first time go "Actually, I'm not feeling hungry today, just ate a system in the way here, so I'll be going over there, k bye!"
FrankTrollman wrote:
Actually, our blood banking system is set up exactly the way you'd want it to be if you were a secret vampire conspiracy.
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
@OgreBattle
Would that not lead to Barbarian Casters or something like that then?
And how would you deal with races that gain more HP per Level and/or get Regeneration?
Seems to me as if that might spiral out of control somewhat fast.
On the other hand, they could reliably kill themselves casting . . .
Welcome, to IronHell.
Shrapnel wrote:
TFwiki wrote:Soon is the name of the region in the time-domain (familiar to all marketing departments, and to the moderators and staff of Fun Publications) which sees release of all BotCon news, club exclusives, and other fan desirables. Soon is when then will become now.
Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
Libertad wrote:2. Why can't the Knight sell magic items?
K wrote:2. It's an arbitrary restriction, like most "honor" restrictions. A knight's magic items are trophies of his victories, and it would be unseemly to sell them.
I mean I was half expecting something related to the "honor in war exists only to serve the powerful" rant in Races of War that would make it about the risk that a peon might acquire a magic item without having shown they are already powerful enough to own one by murdering the previous owner or commissioning one of their own.
Kaelik wrote:Because powerful men get away with terrible shit, and even the public domain ones get ignored, and then, when the floodgates open, it turns out there was a goddam flood behind it.
OgreBattle wrote:Has anyone made a Shadowrun magic user class in D&D? That is they cast with stamina and their spells fit on a few pages isntead of being a 300+ page book
The variety of pseudocasters like the Fire Mage manage to list their abilities rather quickly. They don't cast from HP, though, because that's just a bad idea with the way HP works in 3.X.
If you wanted, you could make one with cooldowns or spell points instead of at-will, and fluff it as the caster "expending their life force" to power their magic.
Koumei wrote:...is the dead guy posthumously at fault for his own death and, due to the felony murder law, his own murderer?
hyzmarca wrote:A palace made out of poop is much more impressive than one made out of gold. Stinkier, but more impressive. One is an ostentatious display of wealth. The other is a miraculous engineering feat.
Animated Objects are not Objects, they are Creatures. They have the Hardness property because they have an ability that grants it to them. They do not have an ability that grants them additional energy resistance.
Koumei wrote:...is the dead guy posthumously at fault for his own death and, due to the felony murder law, his own murderer?
hyzmarca wrote:A palace made out of poop is much more impressive than one made out of gold. Stinkier, but more impressive. One is an ostentatious display of wealth. The other is a miraculous engineering feat.
40k has (or at least had) a few things that dealt with the problem of SM's having a 3+ armour save by negating 3+ (or worse) saves. IG Stormtroopers with hellguns or Vespid with neutron blasters, for example.
Now, that always seemed somewhat terrible, to deal with something basic to marines by taking it away, as opposed to firing more shots or having more troops or being faster or whatever.
Moving away from those specific examples and talking more generally, is dealing with an opponents ability/feature by simply removing it a bad idea, am I missing something, or is it a decent compromise?
