The Gaming Den

Posted: **Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:26 am**

Lago PARANOIA wrote:
Emulate a Class Feature: Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature.

The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.

Right back atcha, dude.

Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item

. The robe is easy to activate, you just wear it. Use Magic Device, by a conservative reading, doesn't let you benefit from things that do nothing for you. The robe leaves you, at best, with an effective sorcerer level of 4 but with no bloodline to advance.

Consider this example: A magic ring that allows a Human (only) to cast Enlarge Person on himself, 3/day. You are an Aasimar Rogue. UMD lets you activate the ring by emulating "being a Human", but it still doesn't do anything for you, because you're an Outsider, not a Humanoid, and the spell doesn't work on you.

TL;DR: UMD - you're doing it wrong.

Posted: **Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:09 am**

Use-Activated: This type of item merely has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.

Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession (meaning on her person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.

You make a Use Magic Device check each time you activate a device such as a wand. If you are using the check to emulate an alignment or some other quality in an ongoing manner, you need to make the relevant Use Magic Device check once per hour.

Posted: **Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:24 am**

This has been a known problem since the year 2000 with UMD and Monk Belts/ Druid Vestments in the 3e DMG. All of the items that set your class level to N+X for one purpose or another are broken when UMD lets you set N with a skill check. That's just how it works.

UMD is a bad idea for a lot of reasons, but this is one of the simplest and most obvious of them. Has been since Clinton was president.

-Username17

Posted: **Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:24 am**

Lago - you're missing the point. Do people without any levels in Sorcerer have a Sorcerer level of 0, or a Sorcerer level of "Go fuck yourself"?

0 + 4 = 4; 0 + GFY = NaN.

Posted: **Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:37 am**

My favourite was UMD + Candle of Invocation. Yes, the very candle that lets you have ultimate wishes. Because it lets a Cleric treat their Cleric level as one higher than it is for the purpose of preparing spells for the day. So suddenly the level 10 Rogue is also a level 15 Cleric or whatever.

Posted: **Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:47 pm**

Omegonthesane wrote:Lago - you're missing the point. Do people without any levels in Sorcerer have a Sorcerer level of 0, or a Sorcerer level of "Go fuck yourself"?

0 + 4 = 4; 0 + GFY = NaN.

UMD 1d20+20 = 27: "My Sorcerer level is 7"
Item: "Okay, now it's 11 for purposes of getting bloodline stuff"
Free bloodline abilities get!

Posted: **Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:13 pm**

That's not how logic works. Try this.

Rogue: I can activate items as if I was a Nth level Sorcerer.
Item: Have +4 on those Sorcerer levels for the purpose of your Bloodline.
Rogue: I have no Bloodline, other than for the sole purpose of activating items.

Having a bloodline and using various magic items are both Sorcerer abilities, but different ones. One effect that lets you use magic items as a Sorcerer with another different effect that improves your Sorcerer bloodline, they both have the word Sorcerer in them but are not otherwise interacting significantly.

Because there's no effect there which gives you a bloodline. Similar to how you're a 7th level Sorcerer for the purpose of activating that item, but you don't have a familiar, or a set of spells to cast, or ... anything. It just activates the item. End of story.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:05 am**

So at the same time as me getting all this time on my hands, someone messaged me on Elliquiy (the adult-rated Play-by-Post site), saying they want to do mutual masturbation run a solo game for each other mutual masturbation (I was right the first time). They specified Pathfailure.

Actually they specified Pathfinder, I'm just being my usual self about it.

So A) I get the whole CMD/CMB thing for manoeuvres, is there some other super important change I need to remember when throwing monsters at them and all that?

B) My character concept uses 3.5 stuff because fuck Pathfinder. On the chance that she asks I specifically use PF stuff and not just convert D&D stuff (which I can do in my sleep, but "backwards-compatible is dead"), is there anything PF made that's actually fun?

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:11 am**

So, I'm noodling around with an archer-type character, and taking a single level Ranger. Hey, I can leverage that into a Bird animal companion; it can't really fight for shit, but it can scout, right? I remember a Hawk having +14 perception, that's not bad.

Except the Bird animal companion doesn't get a perception bonus. Fuuuuuck, who wrote this shit?

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:14 am**

Koumei wrote:So at the same time as me getting all this time on my hands, someone messaged me on Elliquiy (the adult-rated Play-by-Post site), saying they want to do mutual masturbation run a solo game for each other mutual masturbation (I was right the first time). They specified Pathfailure.

If you are planning to play in an adult game, and make anything other than tetori-grappler, then you have already lost.

Clarification: tetori is a monk, with all monky problems, but tetori is actually good at grappling, and has class features for becomming even grapplier, and grappling bigger things.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:29 am**

The idea is for the ero-ero stuff to not happen at the same time as the fighting stuff, so I don't want to play a struggle-snuggle character.

Level 10-ish, my idea was a Wizard 7/Fiendbinder 3 with a literal succubus harem. She suggested a Summoner, which is like that in every single way except for all of them - shittier casting, shittier skills, one single summoned friend.

So I need to look at a different idea completely.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:37 pm**

Do you think that you can play a Thaumaturgist for your Pathfinder game? It's not an officially supported PrC but it was in the 3.5E D&D SRD.

If you're allowed to, you can play a Thaumaturgist cleric, with the Void domain for planar binding, and engage in whatever sapphic shenanigans you wish. Alternatively, you could just grab the Leadership feat and be happy but I know that it's not allowed in most games.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:59 pm**

Actually, that's a thought, yeah. Because obviously there will be times when wandering down corridors and just needing to make trolls stop being alive or whatever, and I hear there are some games where Clerics are good at that.

...and it's already been covered that Clerics can also basically do everything X can do.

I might do that. A follower of the concept of LOVE AND JUSTICE the void of space, and all that lurks beyond.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:33 pm**

http://nethys.karuikage.net/gearMagicWo ... thers-mask

This primitive hyena-like mask is usually made of leather, but some are made of soft metal like copper or even carved out of the skull of an animal. You gain a +2 competence bonus on Handle Animal and Heal checks. You can smell when nearby creatures are in heat or otherwise especially fertile (creatures such as humans that can breed any time of year always smell fertile unless they are barren).

If Lamashtu is your patron, the mask counts as a holy symbol and a hole for a third eye appears in the mask’s forehead. You may use summon monster II once per day to summon a fiendish hyena, which obeys you as if you shared a common language. You may interbreed with animals that are within one size category of your size, usually creating (if you are a humanoid) animal-humanoid creatures such as gnolls or lizardfolk, or sometimes natural lycanthropes prone to live in hybrid form.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:55 pm**

Are pathfinder iconics any good? By "any good" I mean "well optimised" and "showcase the features of the class".

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:58 pm**

Longes wrote:Are pathfinder iconics any good? By "any good" I mean "well optimised" and "showcase the features of the class".

No

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:00 pm**

Longes wrote:Are pathfinder iconics any good? By "any good" I mean "well optimised" and "showcase the features of the class".

You mean, the iconic characters?
Because if so, let me point out that their iconic fighter uses two-weapon fighting with sword and dagger.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:10 pm**

PoliteNewb wrote:
Longes wrote:Are pathfinder iconics any good? By "any good" I mean "well optimised" and "showcase the features of the class".
You mean, the iconic characters?
Because if so, let me point out that their iconic fighter uses two-weapon fighting with sword and dagger.

Ah, I thought something was wrong when I saw the iconic rogue not knowing UMD. And wielding a Keen rapier.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:19 pm**

Longes wrote: Ah, I thought something was wrong when I saw the iconic rogue not knowing UMD. And wielding a Keen rapier.

The Ranger is a crossbow user. By which I mean, at level 7 he attacks once per round at +12 for 1d10+2. His favored enemies are fey and giants.

Kyra, the Cleric, is decent enough. She's focused around Channeling, and as a prepared divine caster, not too constrained by the memorized spells written on the page. She's spent way too many resources on doing piddly damage with hger scimitrar, though, and doesn't get anything interesting from her domain choices.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:21 pm**

Koumei wrote:is there anything PF made that's actually fun?

Pathfinder's Best of the Best.
Classes: Summoners and Synthesist Summoners are oodles of fun and the best thing that's come out of Pathfinder hand's down. They are great in every way. Alchemists are alright and can let you play tons of concepts with one class. Witches are genuinely powerful and have good flavor.

Races: The Strix are a playable race with a 60 foot fly speed from level 1 with no level adjustment so I like them. Also in Pathfinder there is NO LEVEL ADJUSTMENT so if you have ever wanted to play a monster now is the time because that is the road to real ultimate power. I will quote myself from another thread

Playing monsters in Pathfinder is the straight up business. Playing a monster works like you took X levels in that monster where X is equal to its CR, then X is reduced by 1 for every 3 class levels you take after that down to a minimum of half of whatever X started at. So you actually GAIN levels.
Example: A minotaur is CR 4. In a 4th level game you can just play it and have 4 levels of Minotaur. In a 7th level game that would reduce to 3 levels of Minotaur then you would take 4 levels on top of it. In a 10th level game it would reduce to 2 levels of Minotaur and then you'd have 8 levels to spend.

So since monsters are made of arbitrarium anyways and many monsters have abilities that straight up say "You count as a 6th level Sorceror" or whatever it is very common that by choosing to play as a given monster at a given level you are choosing to just get many free levels on top of your levels. Yo Dawg.

Some of the all time big hitters are the following
Aranea: Gives you 5d10 hp, a +5 BAB, and 5 levels of Sorceror for 2 levels
Lamia Matriarch: Gives you 12d10 hp, a +12 BAB, and 6 levels of Sorceror as well as a bunch of sweet fuckin TWF feats for between 4 and 6 levels so you are BORN to Gish.
Lammasu: Gives you 9d10 hp, a +9 BAB, and 7 levels of Oracle with the added bonus that you don't need to use divine focus material components which I'm SURE can let you break the economy somehow. And that is for between 4 and 6 levels.

There should be something in there that can let you have fun.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:27 pm**

deanruel87 wrote:
Koumei wrote:is there anything PF made that's actually fun?
Pathfinder's Best of the Best.
Classes: Summoners and Synthesist Summoners are oodles of fun and the best thing that's come out of Pathfinder hand's down. They are great in every way. Alchemists are alright and can let you play tons of concepts with one class. Witches are genuinely powerful and have good flavor.

Races: The Strix are a playable race with a 60 foot fly speed from level 1 with no level adjustment so I like them. Also in Pathfinder there is NO LEVEL ADJUSTMENT so if you have ever wanted to play a monster now is the time because that is the road to real ultimate power. I will quote myself from another thread

Playing monsters in Pathfinder is the straight up business. Playing a monster works like you took X levels in that monster where X is equal to its CR, then X is reduced by 1 for every 3 class levels you take after that down to a minimum of half of whatever X started at. So you actually GAIN levels.
Example: A minotaur is CR 4. In a 4th level game you can just play it and have 4 levels of Minotaur. In a 7th level game that would reduce to 3 levels of Minotaur then you would take 4 levels on top of it. In a 10th level game it would reduce to 2 levels of Minotaur and then you'd have 8 levels to spend.

So since monsters are made of arbitrarium anyways and many monsters have abilities that straight up say "You count as a 6th level Sorceror" or whatever it is very common that by choosing to play as a given monster at a given level you are choosing to just get many free levels on top of your levels. Yo Dawg.

Some of the all time big hitters are the following
Aranea: Gives you 5d10 hp, a +5 BAB, and 5 levels of Sorceror for 2 levels
Lamia Matriarch: Gives you 12d10 hp, a +12 BAB, and 6 levels of Sorceror as well as a bunch of sweet fuckin TWF feats for between 4 and 6 levels so you are BORN to Gish.
Lammasu: Gives you 9d10 hp, a +9 BAB, and 7 levels of Oracle with the added bonus that you don't need to use divine focus material components which I'm SURE can let you break the economy somehow. And that is for between 4 and 6 levels.

There should be something in there that can let you have fun.

As people in OgreBattle's Bee thread wisely noted, Bee Monks and Bat Swarm Clerics are the way to victory.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:33 pm**

The iconic Ranger is archery focused and uses a fucking crossbow. He would be better in every way with a longbow. He wears studded leather with a max dex of +5 with 22 dex(Attained through use of a stat belt) instead of just wearing mithral chain. He wears an amulet of natural armor but still prepares Barkskin.

The rogue also wears armor with lower dex than she should. She doesn't have any way of reliably sneak attacking.

They're all this bad.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:55 pm**

The iconic Ninja has a 10 Con for 38HP at level 7.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:28 pm**

This is from the Samsaran race entry on the d20pfsrd.

Rogue The rogue gains 1/6 of a new rogue talent.
Wizard Add one spell from the wizard spell list to the wizard's spellbook. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the wizard can cast.

When pathfinder first came out I thought the designers where more toadying and inept then vindictive and malicious. Shit like this, Mummy's Mask and Crane Wing are making me think that they really, really dislike mundane characters.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:49 pm**

Juton wrote:When pathfinder first came out I thought the designers where more toadying and inept then vindictive and malicious. Shit like this, Mummy's Mask and Crane Wing are making me think that they really, really dislike mundane characters.

Mummy's Mask?

The Gaming Den

Pathfinder Is Still Bad