Pathfinder Is Still Bad

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:11 am

Debatable, since someone at Paizo already fucked it up once for the Advanced Race Guide and they changed how the summon rules work in their faq:

Half-Orc, Ferocious Summons: How does this ability work if a summoned creature disappears when it reaches 0 hp?

The summoned creature does not disappear at 0 hp, instead it disappears when killed (when its current hp get to a negative amount equal to its Constitution score).

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:40 am

ishy wrote:Debatable, since someone at Paizo already fucked it up once for the Advanced Race Guide and they changed how the summon rules work in their faq:
The summoned creature does not disappear at 0 hp, instead it disappears when killed (when its current hp get to a negative amount equal to its Constitution score).

Huh, I was not aware of that change. I'm sure I can do something with that, maybe some Death Knell?

On the other side, it makes the counterfeit horse trade even more lucrative.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:43 am

Sorry think my quote was unclear, because I only quoted that part.

Believe it only applies if you have the half-orc feature thingy, (not sure about that, but I'll edit the post above).

GâtFromKI · Post by **GâtFromKI** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:56 am

ishy wrote:Debatable, since someone at Paizo already fucked it up once for the Advanced Race Guide and they changed how the summon rules work in their faq:

Let me put this straight: in order to understand a feat from Champion of Purity, I have to read the erratas of a latter publication. That's silly.

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:10 am

GâtFromKI wrote:
ishy wrote:Debatable, since someone at Paizo already fucked it up once for the Advanced Race Guide and they changed how the summon rules work in their faq:
Let me put this straight: in order to understand a feat from Champion of Purity, I have to read the erratas of a latter publication. That's silly.

Nah, you just have to understand the principle of implied exception.

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:51 am

GâtFromKI wrote:
ishy wrote:Debatable, since someone at Paizo already fucked it up once for the Advanced Race Guide and they changed how the summon rules work in their faq:
Let me put this straight: in order to understand a feat from Champion of Purity, I have to read the erratas of a latter publication. That's silly.

If you don't understand how it was intended to work, you're a retard. Shame on Paizo for making a feat that's screwed up, but shame on you for being a retard.

GâtFromKI · Post by **GâtFromKI** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:59 pm

Yeah, yeah, because the way Pathfinder is intended to work is so obvious that SKR himself is able to explain that the examples displayed in the books don't work as described.

Have you been recently lobotomized or something?

There isn't any "obvious intend" anywhere in Pathfinder, because the designers are stupid and they create useless trap options on purpose. When something looks useless and stupid, it has a good chance to be useless and stupid on purpose. Feel free to argue about that, or you can simply read the 178 pages of this thread again and find numerous examples of what I'm saying.

----
Anyway, there's a rule in the book explaining that when a summoned creature fall to 0 HP, it disappear. I'm quite certain nobody cares.

And now, there are feats that interact with this rule, making it important in some case. And you're explaining me that the intend is obviously that I should ignore that rule each time it comes into play.

Why was this rule printed in the first place, again?

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:01 am

GâtFromKI wrote:Yeah, yeah, because the way Pathfinder is intended to work is so obvious that SKR himself is able to explain that the examples displayed in the books don't work as described.

No, I'm saying that that one particular feat is obvious, so you're an idiot for complaining about that one particular feat. There are so many legitimate things to complain about in Pathfinder that saying "hurr durr, I can't tell if giving Diehard to summoned creatures is intended to have Diehard work for summoned creatures" just makes you sound stupid.

GâtFromKI · Post by **GâtFromKI** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:28 am

hogarth wrote:No, I'm saying that that one particular feat is obvious

How do you dismiss the possibility that it is a stupid trap option created on purpose, again?

Why do you assume that monkey lunge is a stupid trap option created on purpose while good summon is intended to work, again?

rasmuswagner · Post by **rasmuswagner** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:35 am

GâtFromKI wrote:
hogarth wrote:No, I'm saying that that one particular feat is obvious
How do you dismiss the possibility that it is a stupid trap option created on purpose, again?

If a hypothetical feat told you to add the square root of your level to your basketweaving roll, would you ask whether it was meant to be +2 or -2? There's a difference between shit and gibberish, and you're sound like the "But it doesn't SAY that..." retards that the Paizo boards are full of.

Seerow · Post by **Seerow** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:28 pm

If a hypothetical feat told you to add the square root of your level to your basketweaving roll, would you ask whether it was meant to be +2 or -2?

No, I would assume that it obviously meant both, and it's yet another stupid trash option that does literally nothing.

Antariuk · Post by **Antariuk** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:32 pm

http://seankreynolds.com/misc/a-new-cha ... diana.html

EDIT: The announcement thread on Paizo has the highest number of deleted or moderated postings I have ever seen. Kinda funny.

Slade · Post by **Slade** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:24 pm

In other worlds, they nerfed Wild Rager.
See before the DC was 10+Level + Cha. Seeing as Cha isn't a high stat, that made the DC low at low levels (a good dump stat).

Now? DC 10+1/2 level + Con. Seeing as Con is a high stat, the DC is higher up till high levels (as the 1/2 growth is slower than Con boost).

This was a stealth nerf that few realized what with the Crane debate.

ishy · Post by **ishy** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:39 pm

Is that really a nerf?

I haven't looked at the wild rager at all, but IIRC if they rage they get a con bonus, and with that feat that increases your con during a rage, it sounds like the DC is a lot higher at low levels.

And high level pathfinder doesn't work anyway.

- Edit:
And because Frank posted this (well this is a slightly edited):

Frank (paraphrased) wrote:4e thinking at its lamest. Yes, walking around a problem is difficult to the degree of the distance out of your way you have to go to avoid the problem rather than to the difficulty of dealing with the problem head on. Pushing an opponent is difficult to the degree of how far you want to push them rather than how awesome for you it would be if they got pushed into the thing you want to push them into.

Actions are easy or difficult relative to the ease or difficulty of the action in and of itself, not relative to the rewards of success or the penalties of failure. And that isn't some sort of crazy intractable problem or even an interesting revelation. It's the way things work. It's the way things are supposed to work. It's the reason that choices can be good or bad. If you do things right you get high rewards for little risk and if you do things wrong you get low rewards with high risk. And that's good. It means our choices matter.

pathfinder wrote:If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.

nockermensch · Post by **nockermensch** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:11 pm

ishy wrote:
pathfinder wrote:If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.

S-such advanced theorycraft!

hogarth · Post by **hogarth** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:20 pm

ishy wrote:Is that really a nerf?

I haven't looked at the wild rager at all, but IIRC if they rage they get a con bonus, and with that feat that increases your con during a rage, it sounds like the DC is a lot higher at low levels.

The player wants the DC to be low; it's a "save vs. attacking your friends" roll you have to make.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:46 pm

nockermensch wrote:
ishy wrote:
pathfinder wrote:If you attempt to place your foe in a hazardous location, such as in a wall of fire or over a pit, the target receives a free attempt to break your grapple with a +4 bonus.
S-such advanced theorycraft!

Can you use an illusion or make a Bluff check against a party member to make them think there's a hazardous location so they get a free escape attempt?

Wiseman · Post by **Wiseman** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:28 pm

hogarth wrote:
ishy wrote:Is that really a nerf?

I haven't looked at the wild rager at all, but IIRC if they rage they get a con bonus, and with that feat that increases your con during a rage, it sounds like the DC is a lot higher at low levels.
The player wants the DC to be low; it's a "save vs. attacking your friends" roll you have to make.

Are those ever a good idea to have in a game? I can't imagine anyone wanting to risk something like that.

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:24 pm

If the whole table welcomes it as a sort of comedic thing, it can work. Otherwise it's just a way for one player to fuck with everyone else.

name_here · Post by **name_here** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:01 pm

The idea is that you trigger it and everyone else stays the hell away until it wears off.

ubernoob · Post by **ubernoob** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:20 pm

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:05 am

Does the Summon Eidolin spell override the restriction on being able to use the Summon Monster spell-like ability only if the Eidolin isn't there? Or what?

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:49 am

No, but keep in mind the restriction on the SLA goes only one way. If you summon up a bunch of Celestial Dolphins (or whatever) those don't go away if you summon your Eidolon afterward. Normally this doesn't come up since it normally takes ten rounds to summon an Eidolon, and the battle will be over by then, but with the Summon Eidolon spell, you can do it in one round and have it fighting along side your other summons.

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:28 am

I've heard there's a way to have summons appear from the Eidolon, so you could have a giant bee eidolon vomit out more bees

TiaC · Post by **TiaC** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:33 am

OgreBattle wrote:I've heard there's a way to have summons appear from the Eidolon, so you could have a giant bee eidolon vomit out more bees

I'm just going to leave this here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... GBOBo#t=18