The Gaming Den

Ukraine president and staff flee Kiev

I'm rising above the urge to hereafter call him the Chicken of Kiev.

Maxus wrote:Ukraine president and staff flee Kiev

I'm rising above the urge to hereafter call him the Chicken of Kiev.

Well, that's it. The coup happened. I'm sure this will only embolden the idiots causing trouble in Venezuela.

So if I understand my history correctly, this is the CIA & Co. not liking who the people of Ukraine voted for at the last elections, right? And the basic deal is, the guys who did win the election noticed that they live quite close to Russia, and that's not allowed.

The general way of doing things being to bribe the shit out of the upper ranks of military and police, have someone shoot a couple protesters, and then have everyone flip all at once. Then you call elections again, and when they still vote for the wrong people you install a military dictatorship instead. Like Egypt and, well, basically everywhere else you've ever heard of.


My term would be "insurgent", where words mean things (unlike in Iraq, where it's "partisan"). That story about people "finding" his mansion is just propaganda, fucking google maps/earth/everything is a decade old already. President of first world nation is very wealthy man, news at 11.

There does not appear to be any actual evidence that the CIA was actually involved in kicking off any of the revolutions in the last several years. And I don't think the US mind-control ray tech is advanced enough to get people we don't like to pass anti-protest laws that predictably just make things worse.

There has undeniably been outside money and political pressure supporting the Ukrainian uprisings. Much of it has clearly come from Germany. There is footage of people on German payrolls playing the role of agent provocateur: breaking shit, attacking police, starting fires, and so on. The KGB released "proof of US involvement," but it was really small scale bullshit and confined to the US state department providing consultations with opposition leaders, acting as mediators in high level negotiations, and handing out bread in the demonstrations.

The opposition party leaders all signed on to a truce at the beginning of the week which insurgents in Kiev did not abide by, and then they signed a new agreement at the end of the week which insurgents again didn't abide by. he political "leaders" of the opposition movements appear to have no control over the ground troops that are nominally theirs at all. Now Yulia has been released from prison, and the crowd seems to love her, so maybe she can control the mob somewhat, but so far the Punch movement and the neo-fascists have been very publicly incapable of getting the mobs to do or not do anything.

The interesting thing about Yulia is not just that she's Germany's second choice (after the leader of the Punch movement, who got booed when he told the crowds of the deal he struck this weekend), it's that she's Russia's second choice (after Yanukovych), and the United States' first choice. Her getting released from prison by parliament might represent a victory for American soft power, but more likely it represents Putin throwing Yanukovych under the bus.

Yulia was put in prison during the Yanukovych presidency, but she was put there by parts of the government loyal to Yushchenko (the previous leader of the Punch movement, and the guy who started the gas fight with Russia in the first place). Her being released isn't a victory for the opposition generally - it's a victory for her faction of the opposition and a major defeat for Germany's favorite opposition faction. It's not even a defeat for Russia per se, as recall that the "crime" she was in jail for was negotiating with Russia.

I think the simplest reading of this is that the mobs Germany whipped up with money and lies went completely out of control and that Russia and the government cut a deal mediated by the United States to release Yulia in the hopes that she could restore order where the various stooges Germany had hired obviously couldn't. No guaranty she actually can control the mobs, but having been a political prisoner since before the uprising started, she's "pure" and has a better chance than most of being listened to when and if she tells people that the war is over.

-Username17

@Frank
Could you point me to some publication supporting your statements, please? I'm from Germany, and like to think that our media is rather free (see Press Freedom Index), yet I have never heard much about our own involvement in this crisis except the official stuff (Steinmeier trying to negotiate, Gysi proposing to send Schröder as diplomat).

Aharon wrote:@Frank
Could you point me to some publication supporting your statements, please? I'm from Germany, and like to think that our media is rather free (see Press Freedom Index), yet I have never heard much about our own involvement in this crisis except the official stuff (Steinmeier trying to negotiate, Gysi proposing to send Schröder as diplomat).

Have you tried looking at UDAR's wikipedia page? The Ukrainian Democratic Alliance for Reform is a "partner" of Germany's Christian Democrats. Which is a polite way of saying "they are almost completely funded by Angela Merkel's political party." If you want stuff auf Deutsch, that exists as well. Sorry, meine Deutsch ist schlecht und ich kann nicht auswerten die Webseiten. I genuinely don't know whether that particular website is a reputable source of information in German or not, but I figure it might be a place to start because with my really shitty German it seems to be talking about the events in question.

The basic gist is that both through the Konrad Adenauer Foundation and directly, the German CDU has basically financed and trained UDAR from nothing in 2010 to a major political force today. Every time you read reports of UDAR busing in supporters to Kiev, those tickets were paid for with Merkel's money. When I say "Germany," I really mean "the Christian Democratic Union of Germany." Given that Merkel is apparently chancellor for life over there, I feel that's a tolerable exaggeration.

So every time you see this man's mouth moving:


Remember whose hand is moving to make his mouth move:


-Username17

Koumei wrote:Yeah, Putin is such an asshole, and Russia is such a shithole

Koumei, why do you hate Russia? In what way Sweden or other european countries are that much better than Russia? Because I lived in England for a bit, and I thought that England is a shithole, with expensive medicine, terrible food and cold houses. And their two-tap sinks *shudder*

Longes wrote:

Koumei wrote:Yeah, Putin is such an asshole, and Russia is such a shithole

Koumei, why do you hate Russia? In what way Sweden or other european countries are that much better than Russia? Because I lived in England for a bit, and I thought that England is a shithole, with expensive medicine, terrible food and cold houses. And their two-tap sinks *shudder*

I can answer that. You have lived in the UK *and* are young enough to play TTRPGs. This means you're part of the 1% whose 1%hood was paid for by your mommy or daddy. OF COURSE you haven't noticed that Russia is a shithole.

Starmaker wrote:

Longes wrote:

Koumei wrote:Yeah, Putin is such an asshole, and Russia is such a shithole

Koumei, why do you hate Russia? In what way Sweden or other european countries are that much better than Russia? Because I lived in England for a bit, and I thought that England is a shithole, with expensive medicine, terrible food and cold houses. And their two-tap sinks *shudder*

I can answer that. You have lived in the UK *and* are young enough to play TTRPGs. This means you're part of the 1% whose 1%hood was paid for by your mommy or daddy. OF COURSE you haven't noticed that Russia is a shithole.

Hm? Everyone who plays RPGs is young? You've got any other arguments?

Longes: I, for one, laud your slavish concern for defending the Motherland from the verbal onslaughts of the invading immoral and perverted Westerners.

Longes wrote:

Starmaker wrote:

Longes wrote:
Koumei, why do you hate Russia? In what way Sweden or other european countries are that much better than Russia? Because I lived in England for a bit, and I thought that England is a shithole, with expensive medicine, terrible food and cold houses. And their two-tap sinks *shudder*

I can answer that. You have lived in the UK *and* are young enough to play TTRPGs. This means you're part of the 1% whose 1%hood was paid for by your mommy or daddy. OF COURSE you haven't noticed that Russia is a shithole.

Hm? Everyone who plays RPGs is young? You've got any other

I haven't felt young in almost a decade.

Game On,
fbmf

Shrapnel wrote:Longes: I, for one, laud your slavish concern for defending the Motherland from the verbal onslaughts of the invading immoral and perverted Westerners.

I'm merely curious as to what's Koumei's bone with Russia.

Russia has the highest level of inequality in the world of any non-island nation. It has the worst healthcare system in Europe. It's the most heavily policed nation in the world (again, excluding microstates), having more than twice the police per capita than the United Kingdom. It has the tenth highest mortality rate in the world, and the third highest on Earth if you exclude African war zones. Only Saudi Arabia and the Ukraine are non-African places where you are more likely to die on a year to year basis.

Russia is, objectively, by any measure you could care to name, a shit hole. There are worse places on Earth, but none of them are places that you would even think twice about labeling a shit hole. Why is Russia such a terrible place? The Daily Show investigates.

-Username17

What's the cause of Saudi Arabia's high mortality rate?

FrankTrollman wrote:Russia has the highest level of inequality in the world of any non-island nation. It has the worst healthcare system in Europe. It's the most heavily policed nation in the world (again, excluding microstates), having more than twice the police per capita than the United Kingdom. It has the tenth highest mortality rate in the world, and the third highest on Earth if you exclude African war zones. Only Saudi Arabia and the Ukraine are non-African places where you are more likely to die on a year to year basis.

Russia is, objectively, by any measure you could care to name, a shit hole. There are worse places on Earth, but none of them are places that you would even think twice about labeling a shit hole. Why is Russia such a terrible place? The Daily Show investigates.

-Username17

On the one hand I have numbers from CIA Factbook. On the other I have numbers from Rosstat (russian statistics agency). I'm not quite sure that one is less full of shit and biased than the other. Seriously, difference is up to 10 times.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:What's the cause of Saudi Arabia's high mortality rate?

http://www.who.int/nmh/countries/sau_en.pdf
Also, poor driving habbits.

Longes wrote:Hm? Everyone who plays RPGs is young? You've got any other arguments?

No, I'm trying to get you to face your own 1% daddy's boy bias. As for me, I want three things out of a country:
- food
- a place to live and a source of income
- the ability to have first-world goods on my own dime.

As it happens, thugs officially on Putin's payroll keep raiding the place where I buy food, I can have an apartment or a job but not both, and the non-taxable limit for imports is being lowered to 150 euro, just fine with people who routinely make trips abroad on unrelated business and can pick up an iphone tax-free and bring it in as a personal possession but fucks over everyone who has to actually work for a living. So fuck you, and fuck Putin, and fuck Putin's Russia. Go live in a fire, non-fatally.

Starmaker wrote:I can have an apartment or a job but not both

Out of curiousity - why? Also: do you live in Moscow or not? I definitely wouldn't be able to live comfortably in Moscow on my salary

But Russians wear cool fur hats! I have always wanted one of those.

Russia has historically always been a shithole.

The best life Russian citizens had was probably a bit before the revolution and at the height of the Soviet Union and it was still not very good.

Longes wrote:On the one hand I have numbers from CIA Factbook. On the other I have numbers from Rosstat (russian statistics agency). I'm not quite sure that one is less full of shit and biased than the other. Seriously, difference is up to 10 times.

Is it really so hard for people outside the US to figure out in what ways the US is deceptive?

I mean, I know that in your specific case it is because you are stupid shill for the motherland or whatever, but I wonder about people in non-US countries in general, do you find it difficult to figure out what the US government is or is not lying about? In my experience most people in the US sort of just generally know what to trust and not trust.

Maj wrote:But Russians wear cool fur hats! I have always wanted one of those.

You can probably order one over the internets. The fluffier ones are around $300. I bought mine the day I went to see the second D&D movie (so, nine winters ago) and it still looks like new.