The Gaming Den

"7 days to die" seems to be a bit better looking minecraft with zombies O.o

I've been replaying Red Dead Redemption.

1) Ye gods, this game is beautiful. I love the landscapes. I love the nooks and crannies.

2) Doing challenges is a lot easier when you have a good idea of where to find boars.

3) Cougars are a lot less scary when you know where to expect them and how to fight them on foot (they can't turn when they charge, so if you roll sideways, it messes them up).

4) I love this game.

Figured this would be the place to ask - I'm a big fan of JRPGs (particularly Final Fantasy 7 and 9), and wanted to know if there was anything more recent that resembles those games that people consider good. What platform they're on doesn't matter too much (there's always emulation). All suggestions welcome!

I don't know about 7 and 9 specifically, but Lost Odyssey is very nearly Final Fantasy 10+. It's directed by the same dude. It's really good and interesting. 360 exclusive.

Recent Tales games are also very good, but they're real-time action-JRPGs not turn-based or menu-based. There's Xillia on PS3, Graces on Wii with an enhanced port on PS3, and Vesperia on 360.

Shin Megami Tensei/Digital Devil Saga is apparently a great series. See also: Persona. PS2/3 games.

The Atelier Iris games for PS2 are great, and probably more of the standard jRPG type - the later Atelier _____ games (for PS3) understand that people aren't in it for the thrilling combat, and just half-ass that aspect completely (craft barrels/bombs: win the game forever). They're also shorter but with the intent that people would replay them for different endings and hidden content and all that. But for your more standard jRPG experience, yeah, Atelier Iris 1+2. Lots of fun.

If you don't mind getting some tactical in your RPG... and some dating sim in your RPG... then there's Agarest (PS3 and Steam). For less dating sim, more "RPG with vaguely tactical battles using a sort of combo system that fighting game enthusiasts might like" there's Cross-Edge (PS3).

Oh, and for the PS2, I really recommend Shadow Hearts. I think there are three games in the series. They're set in the real world, if you'll ignore the magic and demons and stuff, have an interesting battle mechanic (you can set it to "RNG like a normal jRPG" or you can use the Ring of Judgement where, if you're skilled, every single action you take is a critical forever) and also have cool character designs, decent stories and some bizarre humour - the third one has a guy who wields a sword hilt, and he upgrades his weapon by attaching things to it (cactus, swordfish, street sign, Roman candle). Also a vampiress who has various forms based on the calories gained by drinking the blood of + or - enemies.

I can't second Koumei's recommendations of Shadow Hearts hard enough... the first two anyway. The third one is pretty solid, but the characters didn't do it for me.

There's also the Grandia titles if you don't mind a turn-based field of combat instead of the traditional FF fare.

[Edit] None of those are really recent though, and if you were going back that far you could toss in Suikoden games while you were at it (but maybe not 3 or 4).

More recent stuff seems to be mostly smaller form stuff like the Zeboyd games (Cthulu saves the world, Penny-Arcade 3 and 4) or really indie/free stuff like Embric of Wulfhammer (which basically doesn't have battles until the end) or Tales of the Drunken Paladin (which I haven't actually played, but free and has buzz... so yeah).

TarkisFlux wrote:I can't second Koumei's recommendations of Shadow Hearts hard enough... the first two anyway. The third one is pretty solid, but the characters didn't do it for me.

It's one of my biggest regrets that I haven't played enough of the first two. The third one was enjoyable but had an unfortunate bug that means "try not to use the native American guy, sometimes the game locks up when he does his victory animation" and also had a different feel to the others.

There's also the Grandia titles if you don't mind a turn-based field of combat instead of the traditional FF fare.

Oh fuck yes, Grandia 1 is amazing. Also by playing that, you won't need to do the tutorial in Grandia 2, and that's important, because (for the PC version at least) if you watch the tutorial in G2 then the first boss fight actually becomes impossible. Although really it's just a lesson in "why it's stupid to have story fights where you plink at a high level foe and then they one-shot you and the story continues".

None of those are really recent though, and if you were going back that far you could toss in Suikoden games while you were at it (but maybe not 3 or 4).

I hear Suiko 1 is solid. Suiko 5 was fun, and you can get a lot of mileage out of just sitting down and hating Gizel. Suiko 2 was probably my favourite.

I second the Shin Megami Tensei Games (Especially Nocturne and Digital Devil). I the vein of Atelier Iris for PS2 I would recommend Mana Khemia (not so much for 2)

There are also a number of translated RPGs like Eternal Filena, Arabian Nights,Armed Dragon Fantasy Villgust, Phantasy Star Generation:1,Rudra no Hihou,Persona 2: Innocent Sin ~ Tsumi,The Adventure of Hourai High School,The Magical Land of Wozz,Romancing SaGa 3.

I also third the Shadow Hearts recommendation (be wary of Koudelka).

I would also recommend Metal Saga, it's an sandbox post apocalyptic rpg where you drive around in a tank.

Leress wrote:I would recommend Mana Khemia (not so much for 2)

Actually on that note I'd also suggest Ar Tonelico, which is probably the best of the (surprisingly few!) "musical computer tower" themed RPGs.

Not sure about the second one, but it's probably good.

I've played both the Ar Tonelico PS2 games. They're both pretty good, although I don't altogether approve of the second one's battle system.

The star mechanic for the series is the Reyvetails, who are girls with magical song powers who stand in the back and generate powerful magic of various types. Your frontliners have to protect them, and both games have a sort of charge mechanic where when you have Reyvetails in your party and do certain things both the frontline fighters and the magic effects get better. Also, if they go down the charge mechanic resets to zero, you're obviously not casting shit, and they will proceed to scold you next time you hit an inn for being an incompetent asshole.

Now, the first game had one of those systems where people build up action gauges and take a turn when they fill, with the interesting twist that the Reyvetail magic charged when the clock was running and could be triggered at any time. Also, some attacks would set a number of red rings around the Reyvetail, at which point you could order frontliners to guard her, up to one per ring, and then when the opponent's turn came up damage was split among the guards and if you didn't have enough it also hurt the Reyvetail. After a successful guard you could trigger a powerful attack chain, where you pick the order in which the guards counter-attack and they all had their own special effects. Unfortunately, its charge mechanic was... kinda bullshit. Spoilered for length:

So, there are four harmonics levels. The level you are at determines what skills you have access to, each level can unlock extra effects on Song Magic depending on a complicated additional subsystem, boost magic charge rate depending on a number of factors, and at level 3 improved basic attacks.

At the bottom of this screen is a bar. It fills from the right when your frontliners attack, it fills from the left as a Song Magic charges, and when they meet you go up a level. However, you're capped at level 2 until you use enough magic to fill another bar, which ups you to three and then four. Also, the frontliner attack bar drains when you take damage. Sounds inoffensive? Well, time to get into the bullshit:

First, if you take enough damage to send the bar back off the end, you lose a lot of progress on the previous effect. Second, non-attack Song Magic charges the top bar very slowly. Third, the song bar will stop increasing if the attack bar holds still too long. Fourth, counter-attacking takes a huge bite out of the bottom bars. Lastly, and the reason all of the above is such bullshit, enemies drop a number of items equal to the peak Harmonics level in the fight.

It is fucking infuriating to try to get the third and fourth rewards (item drops at a harmonics level are fixed for an enemy type) to drop from regular enemies. And you want several copies of most every item for crafting purposes. Now, bosses work great. It's fun to charge up the harmonics bar against them, and if you pay attention it shouldn't be hard to get all four drops.

The second game's battle system is kind of funky. There's an attack phase and a defense phase. Each of them lasts for a certain amount of time, and every character can act as often as they have time for, and during the defense phase attacks are directed towards Reyvetails and you perform a timing game to block them. Also, you can have two Reyvetails in the active party at once, and there's a bunch of mechanics there. Also, the new charge mechanic has you match your attacks to fill a diamond-thing that resizes in all four directions every phase with a separate bonus for each direction, but the attack selection is a bit sticky so characters tend to use the same attack several times in a row even if you're trying to tell them to switch it up. Also, partway through the main plot you gain access to a special ability that breaks the game in half.

One of the cool things about the games is that the plot actually kinda forks in both of them. There's initially two Reyvetails in the party, and at a certain point they split up and you choose to go with one of them, eventually rejoining the other one much later.

Wild Arms 3 is really old, but it's for the PS2 and you can get it for like $5. It's a fantasy-western JRPG that is really solid and fun.

Also I second the Grandia series.

I have to recommend the Tales Games. They're supplanted Final Fantasy for me.

Real-time battle system, which means that your gamer skill can make a difference on a tough enemy. It also feels awesome when you rock a fight.

My favorite part of it? It's got fucktons of character interaction and just plain characterization. There's optional conversations (that pop up in a mugshot sequence) called skits that, half the time, aren't about anything that major. Everyone has their own hangups, makes some jokes. You can't be Super Serious Save The World -all- the time, after all.

Lots of sidequests, optional bosses, and general Things To Do.

Tales games are on Auto-buy for me.

Maxus wrote:I have to recommend the Tales Games. They're supplanted Final Fantasy for me.

Real-time battle system, which means that your gamer skill can make a difference on a tough enemy. It also feels awesome when you rock a fight.

My favorite part of it? It's got fucktons of character interaction and just plain characterization. There's optional conversations (that pop up in a mugshot sequence) called skits that, half the time, aren't about anything that major. Everyone has their own hangups, makes some jokes. You can't be Super Serious Save The World -all- the time, after all.

Lots of sidequests, optional bosses, and general Things To Do.

Tales games are on Auto-buy for me.

Love the skits. Because you prompt them with a button, they become something you go out to do, instead of 'filler' cutscenes you want to skip.

Also there are a couple of RPG Maker game I would recommend. Last Scenario and Exit Fate by SCF and Leo and Leah. Also for PS1 Thousand Arms it's a Dating Sim/RPG. It's pretty easy but the characters are fun and have a lot of personality.

Leress wrote:I would also recommend Metal Saga, it's an sandbox post apocalyptic rpg where you drive around in a tank.

Oh HELL YEAH!, also don't forget Dogs wielding bazookas, and ending the game in 5 minutes jokingly. One of my favorites by far, though it sounded like the older "Metal Max" games would be awesome to play as well. As kinda looked like they were like classic Final Fantasy's, but with Tanks.

I loved Grandia, even if its graphics are hideous. The music, story and setting were great. I particularly loved the magic/fighting system.

Aryxbez wrote:

Leress wrote:I would also recommend Metal Saga, it's an sandbox post apocalyptic rpg where you drive around in a tank.

Oh HELL YEAH!, also don't forget Dogs wielding bazookas, and ending the game in 5 minutes jokingly. One of my favorites by far, though it sounded like the older "Metal Max" games would be awesome to play as well. As kinda looked like they were like classic Final Fantasy's, but with Tanks.

Metal Max Returns (SNES) was translated.

Another few RPGs I forgot to mention was Dragon Quest 8, Rogue Galaxy, Summoner and Dark Cloud 2 (more action-Rpg). If you want a good laugh play Lord of the Rings: Third Age aka You got LOTR fanfiction in my FFX. Also don't play Drakengard 1 and 2 but read the LPs of those.

GRANDIA? No, don't recommend that people play Grandia. It is crap, as all true JRPG experts understand. The graphics were really nice at the time, and the music is good. But the combat is gimmicky and ultimately boring (because it is pathetically easy and the game is like 60 hours long), and the storyline is truly embarrassing. Don't play Grandia. DON'T PLAY GRANDIA

Grandia 2 had arguably some of the best combat mechanics in any team based traditional RPG I have ever seen.

I have no idea about 1 or anything since 2, but if anyone is trashing Grandia 2's combat mechanics as "not a true JRPG" well... maybe, but if so, only because it was vastly more enjoyable, so yeah, ignore those dumb fuckers.

PhoneLobster wrote:Grandia 2 had arguably some of the best combat mechanics in any team based traditional RPG I have ever seen.

I have no idea about 1 or anything since 2, but if anyone is trashing Grandia 2's combat mechanics as "not a true JRPG" well... maybe, but if so, only because it was vastly more enjoyable, so yeah, ignore those dumb fuckers.

They all have essentially the same battle system. There is only some slight differences mainly in character movement manipulation. I would agree that it is a very good battle system.

Yes, that's an awesome battle system. Tekken-juggling enemies, rushing about to avoid attacks, and multi-part bosses everywhere. And the magic system is pretty cool as well.

And Grandia (the first, at least) is just a fun game as well. You enjoy wandering around and exploring (and sneaking up on foes), and the dialogue is pretty amusing as well.

The "big thing" in Grandia's combat system was the AP or IP bar or whatever it was called, that showed when everyone was going to take their action. But as I mentioned, this is little more than a gimmick because everyone moves at hugely different speeds so rarely is it actually informative.

It is cool being able to cancel enemy attacks when you hit them at the right point on the bar. But really, it is totally unnecessary to bother with this in a conscious way. Grandia is one of those games where you just pick the "attack" command every time without further contemplation because the game is just really _easy_. Your characters will often gang beat some asshole enemy and just hit them at the cancel point without you even trying to do so. There is just no incentive to put thought into anything combat related, except maybe the final boss battle.

Which honestly isn't necessarily a killer... there are good RPGs that are too easy and have so-so combat systems. But Grandia is fucking long (like 60 hours), and it's just too tedious, especially because the story develops SOOOO slowly. I mean, the story only develops with about 20 hours of gameplay. The rest is just 40 hours of tedious, boring quests that don't have any emotional urgency or plot development. BORING -- that is ultimately the most serious problem a game can, and Grandia has it.

Rotating the environment was really cool with explorations (a contemporary game, Xenogears, also did this and it was rad). There was a lot of detail in teh graphics.

The original English translation for PS1 by Sony totally blows (remember, this was the first "real" way to play the game in North America, since no one cared about Saturn at that point). It dumbs the game down to the level of six year olds. Anything even slightly "mature" is cut from the script. So the dialogue is shallow and unintelligent. The romance in this story is ridiculously cheesy and dumb. It's like 8-year old kids flirting with each other. You will want to kill yourself when you read the dialogue.

The voice acting fucking sucks. The guy who plays the main character makes me want to kill myself. And Sue, dear god. That dumb fucking girl Sue, and her dumb fucking "Puffy" pet. WTF? You would expect Puffy to upgrade into a cool monster, like a pokemon or a Nall from Lunar or something, but no. Puffy is just a dumb...thing. And Sue? Fuck that bitch seriously. She spends teh first half of the game whining and bitching, and then finally you do her a big favor by sending her home because the adventure is too hard on her, and the game tries to make you care and feel sorry for her, but really you just hate the game for making you endure such a stupid pair of characters for like 30 hours.

If you could play a mod of Grandia 1 with much harder difficulty and better writing/voice acting, it would be a decent game, but still not a great one.

So yeah, screw Grandia. There are much better JRPGs out there. (Grandia 2 was a better game, but still not great.)

One more for Grandia 2 was brilliant with an excellent combat system.

As well as the first time I saw a game let you fight a huge monster by giving it separate parts that act separately with level appropriate abilities rather than one monster with stupid big numbers.

infected slut princess wrote:since no one cared about Saturn at that point)

I think you mean "ever"

Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land

It's like Wizardry+Madden+Terada with a really nice story that focuses on delving into a deep dungeon.