More Threads that make us Laugh, Cry, or Both

[tzor]

1203475799[/unixtime]]But I always wanted to play in an all-Commoner game!

But I've always wanted to play in an all-commoner game ... as a one shot adventure perhaps in a convention setting. Although really an all-expert game might be more appealing.

[Username17]

I don't really understand the point of the Martial Adept Warlock. You get a neebly beam that no one cares about and a completely unexplained ability to use Martial Adept cards on your neebly beams. I mean dude, how does making a White Raven charge with an Eldritch Blast even work? Do you have to run up to point blank range? Or do you just run forward 10 feet and then let fly?

I can't evaluate it because it doesn't really tell me how its two abilities interact with each other - despite the fact that these abilities are only ever used in tandem.

-Username17

[Voss]

Its...rather crappy, even ignoring the bizarre interaction of ranged attacks with melee requirements. And there are a lot that make no sense. Though why you get access to all martial disciplines when no one else outside a prestige class does...

Since the blast works exactly like it does for a warlock, SR shuts the character down hard. The damage curve is absurdly low. It essentially tops out at 9d6+100, once per combat. Whee.

[Maxus]

Exercising my Googling skills, I came across this.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.ph ... br]Someone decided to make the Pyrokineticist.

As a base class.

Okay, can't fault them, I'd be inclined to try that out myself...

...If Frank hadn't already made the Fire Mage.

I did some comparisons between this 'base class' and the PrC, and it looks like the base class gains certain abilities later than the crappy PrC does.

I can think of four nice touches:
1) Bypassing all Fire Immunity at level 12. Not too bad.
2) Giving them Heat Death more than one time a day.
3) A bonus feat which helps them establish Psionic Focus after they blow it.
4) Decent saves and skill points.

The rest...eh, it's got a cinnamon-flavored Eldritch Blast, for pete's sake! Fire Lash should scale its damage to be any kind of level appropriate.

I'll still be taking the Fire Mage if I want to go around torching stuff.

(Edit: Got this in the right thread. Let's see if if it doesn't screw up this time..)

[Talisman]

Well, not everyone has access to/knows about/wants to use the Fire Mage. Heck, some GMs wouldn't allow the Fire Mage.

As a GM, I'd approve a weak class sooner than a super-powered one. It's easy to add bennies; it's harder to take away stuff.

[JonSetanta]

My current DM allowed the Fire Mage, with no changes at all, but it was I that pushed for a swap to Sorcerer (with an exchange of familiar for Firey Burst reserve feat at L1 and to 'bump up' the spells known list by 1 level earlier)

Quite simply, Fire Mage sucks. You'll be doing fire damage with ranged attacks at level 1, and keep doing just that until the end.
It got boring fast.
Even Warlock has more options, but I didn't want something stuffed into a theme with a PVC bodysuit and a fiendish whip jammed up its Eldritch Ass.
Playing Warlock means "I am a Demon Lord's bitch" no matter how much you may try to explain otherwise. The invocation names scream it.

As a GM I tend to approve moderately overpowered classes, and if they get out of hand I pump up the relative power of the other PCs and encounters to compensate.
But don't go thinking "He's refering to full class spellcasters spamming Save Or Dies", cuz it's not usually like that; almost all of my friends prefer warriors.
I got lucky, but that's just a Fallacy (that you can just disallow certain core classes that cause problems)
*shrug*

[Talisman]

1203643737[/unixtime]]
Playing Warlock means "I am a Demon Lord's bitch" no matter how much you may try to explain otherwise. The invocation names scream it.

So you...umm...change the invocation names?
I've played a gestalt warlock/rogue without a drop of fiendish blood in her elven veins. Her powers were pure magic and luck.

[Cynic]

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=987749 --

basically, how to use diplomacy to get somebody to attack you (by having them go hostile) while you are already fighting them or trying to fight them.

Wait, they're already hostile as you are fighting them currently.
...

[Voss]

The 4e rogue thread on gleemax.
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.ph ... ][br]Extra points for the thread derail on page 2, for use of the word retarded.

I only made it to page 3 before my brain insisted I stop hurting it.

[Harlune]

So far my favorite is the guy who complained that they used the word 'shuriken' instead of 'throwing knife' or 'dart' because it means he won't be able to use it without his rogue automaticly being a weaboo.

[JonSetanta]

1203930293[/unixtime]]So far my favorite is the guy who complained that they used the word 'shuriken' instead of 'throwing knife' or 'dart' because it means he won't be able to use it without his rogue automaticly being a weaboo.

Must ... resist... reading thread...

[tzor]

1203917572[/unixtime]]I only made it to page 3 before my brain insisted I stop hurting it.

I easily made it to page 3, but then again I have DR 5 vs BULLSHIT. Honestly what is the use of a retarded attack againt retarded? And it's Bounty, not Brawny that is the "quicker picker uppper." (Yes it's quicker not thicker, as the other idiot suggested.) God they don't even know the real world, much less the game rules!

This reminds me of the Life of Brian "Blessed are the Cheesemakers" discussion. No idiots you just can't read! It has nothing to do with whether or not .

If you survive to page 4 you can see Old candy hearts WizO Chaos (hey don't blame me that's his latest icon) giving out wanings and deletions.

[Zherog]

Not that it matters much, but WizO_Chaos is a she.

[Draco_Argentum]

Whats with more than one person saying they like random hp?

[Username17]

1204016916[/unixtime]]Whats with more than one person saying they like random hp?

I don't know. It honestly makes no sense to me. While I remember the old Arnesson discussion about how rolling for hit points aand damage was unnecessary and you could just as easily roll for hit points alone and then have all monsters inflict average damage - I think most people would agree that it's not super important one way or the other.

A lot of people are arguing whether it "makes sense" for people to be able to sneak attack with a halberd. Completely missing the point where the words don't actually mean anything and the actual concern is that with only 8 character classes the game is really going to suck as a role playing game if characters are as limited in weapon selection as Soul Calibur or Diablo characters.

-Username17

[virgil]

Rolling for hit points certainly introduces more variance in the system. Having 12dX gives the potential for alot of swing, while most monster swings are 2dX+bunches, so their attacks are already fairly close to the average. It's only the rare spellcaster NPC or the dragon's breath that actually has an attack with as much variance potential as a character's hit points.

Edit: Curse you Frank, for making me curious as to what you meant by "Arnesson discussion". Now I'm becoming versed in RPG design history.

[NoDot]

Wouldn't very low variation HP rolling (d4?) be OK, providing a distinction between characters?

[Username17]

1204036068[/unixtime]]Wouldn't very low variation HP rolling (d4?) be OK, providing a distinction between characters?

Hit Point Variation is a good thing if you are doing what D&D originally did: run the game at moderate lethality and watch players make new characters fairly frequently while the poor and even mediocre characters got killed off.

The end result is that the characters who actually reached high level are substantially above average across the board. And since you actually rolled up average and below average characters, these above average characters really felt like they were above the average rather than just being normal PCs who were told by the flavor text that all the PCs were above average.

But today people play just one character. They give them last names and backgrounds starting at first level. Character creation takes a long time and is an art in and of itself. Having people be confronted with chances to be below average is sub optimal. Especially for something like Hit Points, where it doesn't really open up new role playing options to have a low number.

Characters who are stupid, weak, antisocial, or clumsy can be fun to play. Characters who are abstractly less powerful are not.

-Username17

[Talisman]

Meh. Average hp...rolled hp...I don't really care either way, but a lot of gamers have the gambler mentality, where they'd rather risk the low roll on a chance of a high roll.

With per-level hp now divorced from Constitution, it's easy enough to reerse-engineer a 4e rogue's HD, for those that want to. 5 hp/level ~1d10, or = 2d4, your choice.

[Voss]

I don't think its that simple really. Its more likely something that was tweaked to a point that they liked. Or they just went with a 3e rogue with a 14 con and worked out that math- its close enough to make no nevermind.

I terribly amused by the 'distinctiveness' arguments. I mean, really. The characters hit point total was the most distinguishing feature? Rather sad. And very 1st edition.

[Talisman]

1204048237[/unixtime]]I don't think its that simple really. Its more likely something that was tweaked to a point that they liked. Or they just went with a 3e rogue with a 14 con and worked out that math- its close enough to make no nevermind.

You're probably right, but what I meant was: if you insist on randomize hp in 4e, reverse-engineer the rogue to figure what HD he should have. Ignoring Con, he should have d10s.

[JonSetanta]

It's worst when some members of a group have the common sense to take a static amount of HP, or the GM decides to enforce static HP or even maximum, while the other side of the group (there's always at least 1 in every group) not only insists on rolling for HP but for everyone else to roll HP as well.

And I guarantee, even with 4e coming, there will be whiners bawwwwing about their lack of rolling HP if not by now.
They will sit down with their group, crack open the 4e book, and then attempt to work some shoddily spontaneous house rule that will allow them to gamble with the life and viability of their own character in a way the system was never designed for (barring the 1e intent Frank mentioned that creates a Mad Hatter effect for the party; "Clean sheet! Clean sheet! Everybody make a new character!"

I'm sure there's essays on this subject but my argument in defense of static HP is "If that's the kind of game you want, why stop there?"
If these people insist on rolling for distribution of such a limited resource, why not also roll for your weapon selection, your skill point pool, your starting cash (oh wait! yes. 3.x does that. dumbasses.), and your favorite color.
Hell, make a d20 check to see if your character was subject to a miscarriage before birth, torn to shreds by wolves as a toddler, or develops bone marrow cancer before adventuring age.
If you fail the Pass Into Adulthood check, make a new character.

Perhaps my anger on this issue comes from my first AD&D character, the elven Figher/Mage, dying to ratbite in a sewer at level 1. And yes, I had to make a new character.
His HP at the time: 3.

[virgil]

Ever hear of Hackmaster? Pretty much took what you described there, sigma, in all its D&D-parody glory. I know of people playing it with all seriousness.

[JonSetanta]

I've heard of it but can neither afford it nor have a friend that owns it
Looks funny, though.
Almost had a chance at a party a month ago but everyone went with Scattergories instead.

[Cielingcat]

Some things are really fun to roll for. For example, critical effects in Dark Heresy. Half the fun of fighting is seeing what horrible death you inflict on people.