League Of Losers

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:31 pm

Hit Diamond III and still going strong. Teams got better and so individual mechanics feel less important than your ability to pick the right fights and play your role correctly. Comebacks also happen a lot more now since people can lose lanes gracefully (ie. die once and then just farm up and accept that they'll be a little weaker in fights) and then do well and team's feel much less ragey as a whole because you don't get very far being a dick to everyone.

People dive all the time right now, and 90% of the time it actually works out.

Stuff I've been seeing that I feel like sharing because fuck it:

Shen: Playing Shen is getting a lot more weaker in lane now, but a lot stronger overall due to teams actually planning on the Shen ult for dives and initiates. Most tops are better laners than Shen right now, as everyone wants a split pusher top. I could very well just be worse at laning than the people I'm against at this point, though.

Taric: People ban him sometimes. That's very annoying.

Supports: Thresh is open more often now. Weird supports got phased out again, so its mostly Annie and the usual suspects.

ADCs: Lucian and Sivir are king, Cait is back, Vayne is gone, Jinx/Ez are sometimes picked. I'm still mostly clueless as an ADC and just pick fucking Cait or Jinx and hide way in the back. I am clearly not a diamond level ADC.

Mids: Probably the most diverse role right now for champ selection. Been seeing Annie mid, Syndra, Orianna, Zed, Swain, Gragas...all sorts of champs have been popping up. No real theme going on, which is nice.

Jungle: Aside from Eve being picked/banned every damn game it's the same ol same ol. Actually haven't seen Aatrox in a while, lol "carry junglers will be viable." Riot is a bunch of jokesters.

Top: Split pusher, specifically Rengar, Lee Sin, Tryn, Shyvana, Riven and Shen. That's fucking it most of the time (Nasus is banned).

S4 is still feeling aggressive, which is awesome. Love that the map isn't all wards anymore and you have to pick which area you're watching. So many fights and so much pushing for vision!

Jungle shit:

Kaelik wrote:
I'm not sure how you could possibly be confused or why it would matter. You claimed that if you lengthen the walls, junglers will have to go all the way around Baron (Or Dragon if they are on Blue side) to gank, because the ward will cover everything from wraith wall to Baron wall.

What I am saying is that they already do. You put a ward in the bush by River side of Red and it covers everything between Baron and jungle. So your absurd claim that junglers won't be able to gank mid if you lengthen the walls is fucking stupid.

Making the walls thicker/longer makes the jungler take longer to reach lanes. The jungler taking longer to reach lanes means ganking requires more of an investment, and makes failed ganks even more crippling (right now you usually just lose a camp and some farming time, which just sets you a little behind). If it took longer to reach lanes you would take even more care to avoid wards in the event of a gank, right now you can stumble through wards and just say "fuck it" and run in anyways if you're rammus or shyv or Vi and still have a shot at bothering the laner. Increasing the time it takes to reach a lane by any significant amount crushes that.

Kaelik wrote: No it shouldn't. It should be behind the optimal strategy, which very often isn't that.

Except it is often optimal. Farming mids are big right now (mostly Orianna and Syndra, notoriously shit gankers), and they can take wraiths. It's normal for them to do that. You don't farm your wraiths if you have a gold-dependent jungler (Shyvana!), but otherwise you do it. The jungler can make the xp up by camping a lane or farming other camps.

The ADC/Support usually farm golems/wight (or white...whatever it's called) before they B after a push as well. It's just a good strategy since the jungler can always be doing something else and lanes really just want gold after they shove out.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:33 pm

Why do you think Vayne is no longer picked?

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:09 pm

Korgan0 wrote:Why do you think Vayne is no longer picked?

Could be her lack of waveclear and poke, semi-weak dueling against equally fed/farmed Rengar and Shyvana (Vayne was better at dueling Zed and other bursty assassins because she could stealth to avoid burst and then beat them down quick, can't do that with fast bruisers), combined with her mediocre lane phase. She's worse than Lucian in the bruiser split push meta. She's definitely still viable, but she requires peel and teams aren't running peel tanks or supports (rather than initiator tanks/supports) often and are always running at least one big bruiser split pusher/diver

Lucian is a more mid-game oriented Vayne with waveclear and poke, survives bruiser dives better, and games aren't lasting long enough for Vayne to get huge. Even then, long games are determined more by initiate and poke (or a big split pusher) than they are by sustained damage unless the teams have very similar comps.

So if I really had to say why Vayne is picked less I'd say it's Lucian's fault. He's Vayne (in that he's a mobile, highish damage ADC) but better suited to the current meta. We all underestimated Lucian, his lane phase is beastly if paired with an aggressive support. I thought it was kinda weak at first, but his decent range dash/slow cleanse gives him good trades and makes him pretty safe from ganks that don't have targeted CC.

Split push meta is kind of obnoxious. Rengar needs a sustain nerf and Shyv's movespeed buff or damage (but not both) could probably use one too. Either that or they'll hit Hydra, but that kind of fucks over AD casters for no reason.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:26 am

They also removed the extra attack on condemn, so you don't get a free extra attack off using it. That really screwed her damage.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:48 am

And truthfully, Vayne started to fall off in use when they nerfed BoRK a while a go. BotRK gives her so much of everything she needs mid game to start becoming late game that it was the go to item, but slightly worse means she just barely doesn't kill people. But yeah, that and condem attack lowered her burst, and split push meta has/is changing whether you want her around. She dies to Rengar much more often than Zed even though both of them are assiny.
But I'm fine with the death of Vayne, because it opens up my Tanky powers to full Mundo in Season 4.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:57 am

Oh man mundo is awesome. People have forgotten him and his 40 AD steroid. CHUNK.

Cleavers are still... underwhelming.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:27 am

Cleavers deal a giant % health damage with zero gold investment; that's not underwhelming at all.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:31 am

Yeah, Tank Mundo can use his E to chop down turrets, but he gets to the turret by zoning the enemy top laner with cleavers for five minutes. Cleavers are not underwhelming, and all you have to do to see it is have him chunk them into you every time you go to cs under your own turret.

Something he can do because the new 0/30/0 Mundo has the sustain to stay in lane pre-6 the way he couldn't in season 4, and even survive the trades that other laners can bring. (Where survive is all he really needs because he can back off to tower and cs with cleavers till he it gets to him).

Level 6, Mundo just either freezes wave or clears entire wave at once, pushes his to tower, and then cleavers every time you move forward to cs.

Also, while I'm at it, Vayne was popular before the Trinity Force buff that only helps Corki/Ez (Corki who was season Worlds ADC king)/Lucian.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:30 pm

Top lane Mundo is ridiculous, forgot about him in the list (he's a ban now). Most bans are used on huge split pushers currently, and if you don't ban them you'd better pick one unless you're confident you can end early.

I had a game today where I was Shen top against Tryn and killed him 3 times in lane, but due to our bot lane failing pretty hard we couldn't outpush the lone Tryn once thirty minutes rolled around and he could beat me in straight 1v1s. Our issue was probably more in our poorly played ADC (he died first every fight, so even if we had 3 up we couldn't just base race Tryn), but having a duelist who takes turrets fast is currently a very strong strategy. Strong and easy.

They really need to fix this meta, it's bad when one champion is a more effective pusher than 3 champions, even if the 3 aren't built for shoving turrets. Maybe add a turret armor decrease based on # of nearby enemy champs - number of nearby friendly champs? Right now turrets only lose armor based on minion proximity, so one real split pusher vs 3 normal champions is seriously a win for the split pusher if he has anything resembling a wave near him.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:09 pm

So Rammus, one of my favourite champs, is now being nerfed into the goddamn floor via changing the duration of his taunt at max rank from 3 to 2.25 seconds. They're slightly increasing the rank 1 duration, but they seem to be labouring under the idea that rammus has a strong early game, which is completely false.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:42 pm

Korgan0 wrote:So Rammus, one of my favourite champs, is now being nerfed into the goddamn floor via changing the duration of his taunt at max rank from 3 to 2.25 seconds. They're slightly increasing the rank 1 duration, but they seem to be labouring under the idea that rammus has a strong early game, which is completely false.

I think that was said as like "If the Rammus gets super lucky early game, he can be a problem." Which is... still completely stupid, but in a different way.

Blasted · Post by **Blasted** » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:49 pm

They're increasing the low ranks of Rammus' and Fiddle's CC abilities, while decreasing the high ones. Because with the speed LoL is played at, 3 seconds of CC is stupid.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:01 am

Blasted wrote:They're increasing the low ranks of Rammus' and Fiddle's CC abilities, while decreasing the high ones. Because with the speed LoL is played at, 3 seconds of CC is stupid.

Yeah, I actually don't object to the lowering of high CCs, and I say this as a fiddle. But the claim that a champ having a good early game makes them unstoppable late game is 1) kinda true of everyone. 2) Less true of Rammus than many many champs, like all adcs and AP carries. And Riven.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:34 am

Wow, they just turned Fiddlesticks into trash tier. Rammus is probably "okay", but just barely.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:13 am

Surgo wrote:Wow, they just turned Fiddlesticks into trash tier. Rammus is probably "okay", but just barely.

Presumably they will buff something else besides just a shitty mana cost on fear at some later point thus making him worth playing. That is what I mean by being okay with this as a fiddle player.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 4:25 pm

I called the Taric nerf from a million miles away. Fortunately it's not the biggest nerf ever, but it's still substantial enough to make me not want to FP Taric anymore. Janna buff makes me happy.

What, people think this nerf hurts Rammus a lot?

His early game was utter shit sans his excellent ganks, and they just made his excellent ganks even better. Late game Rammus' taunt is always QSSed, used on somebody with tenacity, or avoided in some other way. His late game taunt duration is high and all, but it's hitting people who don't care much or can mitigate it in some way 99% of the time.

The taunt you're using on a diving bruiser is now a shorter duration, but you were never getting the ADC to suicide on you (unless they were bad or their team messed up to the point of Rammus closing on the ADC without cleanse/QSS/mikael's) anyways. The main thing this changes is Rammus has a harder time killing AP carries late, whom he has an incredibly difficult time reaching.

People have not stopped playing Rammus, and he's still good. Fiddle as well (though Fiddle was hit harder by the nerf to his CC, as his primary role is support).

PSA: Pantheon jungle is good now. His main issue was his unsafe (and kind of slow) clear, and getting Aegis on minions makes his clear super fucking safe and a bit faster (and he can now tank the shit out of Dragon/Baron). Aegis on minions also gives him a way to escape in the jungle, which is awesome. Dude is good, play him if your mid or top has decent CC to follow up your stun with. Don't play him if they can't because he still relies on a good gank or two to really contribute.

Yasuo seems pretty good, but a Melee carry without a way to become invulnerable will always be kinda weak against smart players. His ult might make him viable though, so permabanned until I can tell if he's any good or not.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:45 pm

Maybe his taunt is always mitigated at diamond/challenger, but at the elo's I play it it's genuinely trivial to flash in and powerball+taunt the ADC, who buy a QSS about one in every thousand games. Also, ganks are only better if you have taunt at rank 1, which will only be the case at level 3 since you max it first (maybe putting in a rank or 2 into DBC to help clear). Also, Rammus' early ganks have never been that good. You have a minor slow, a .5 sec knockback, and your taunt, which in total is gonna be 2~ish seconds of CC and a decent amount of damage, which really isn't anything to write home about. His ganks only really hit their stride once you've mostly maxed your E and have picked up a couple HP items so you can actually tank, and it's exactly that phase, his main strength, that riot have hit with the nerf bat.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:13 pm

Korgan0 wrote:Maybe his taunt is always mitigated at diamond/challenger, but at the elo's I play it it's genuinely trivial to flash in and powerball+taunt the ADC, who buy a QSS about one in every thousand games. Also, ganks are only better if you have taunt at rank 1, which will only be the case at level 3 since you max it first (maybe putting in a rank or 2 into DBC to help clear). Also, Rammus' early ganks have never been that good. You have a minor slow, a .5 sec knockback, and your taunt, which in total is gonna be 2~ish seconds of CC and a decent amount of damage, which really isn't anything to write home about. His ganks only really hit their stride once you've mostly maxed your E and have picked up a couple HP items so you can actually tank, and it's exactly that phase, his main strength, that riot have hit with the nerf bat.

All Rammus ganks after 3 are strong, as he powerballs in so fast that even if you ward he's going to be reaching you unless you burn an escape. He has a minor knockback with a slow attached, then he taunts (and if you're melee he brings you further from your turret during it) and does more damage. Few other junglers bring that much reliable CC to a gank.

If the other laner has any form of CC or a big burst you're burning a summoner or dying during Rammus ganks. He's also one of the few junglers where you have to ward out further than usual to escape without damage because a regular ward won't spot him out in time. You can walk away from almost any jungler getting spotted by a river ward top/bot, but you can't just walk away from a Rammus who's spotted in the same spot because he's too damn fast.

Rammus really is one of the best gankers in the game. Powerball is the main reason, you just have to burn summoners if you don't spot him out extremely early because you'll get CCed and killed. It's all targetted, so there's no failure chance unless he bumps into minions (and he'll taunt you in the wave anyways, so hiding there is usually a no-go).

I agree with it being a lot easier to land melee range CC at lower levels of play, and I think that's what the Rammus nerf was directed at. Getting CCed for 3 seconds sucks. They didn't nerf Rammus because of pros, they probably did it because he can pubstomp normals or something (see: Master Yi).

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:20 pm

Double posting for Diamond II! Whether I can keep it or not, I don't know.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:19 am

You sure climb fast.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:23 pm

I got capped at Plat I, so my MMR was somewhere in mid diamond when I got in. Since then I've been gaining 22 LP per win and losing ~16 per loss. It helps that I had a 10-game win streak going through lower diamond. Climbing when your MMR is high is pretty easy, but eventually you hit the point where your MMR is average for your position and start having even gains and losses. Winning a bunch of games in a row raises your MMR faster than winning 2 or 3, losing 1, then winning 2 or 3 and losing 1 again if what I've heard from people is right (consecutive wins are more valuable because the system assumes you're in the wrong place if you win a lot of games in a row, the inverse happens when you lose a lot in a row). So that one long win streak means I might hit D1 before season 4 actually starts, but I don't know.

I'm only solid at mid, top (and even then, only Shen and Cho + maybe Irelia) and support, whereas I'm much mechanically weaker than the ADCs at my level and don't have a big enough pool of junglers to call myself good at that either. I don't cause losses (usually) as ADC or jungler, but I can't make big plays like I can in top/mid/support. I'm just hoping I can get back into diamond once season 4 rolls around.

Of course, the moment I hit D2 and won a game I had two games where a person on my team never connected and dropped to 0 LP. Hell, the game after that I ended up DCing and not getting in until the other team's mid was 4 (we won anyways because their mid kept taking bait and our jungler was incredible, but I'd of dropped back to D3 if I lost).

People rage so much less now, but the people who do it end up raging about pretty acceptable mistakes (you were farming the jungle when mid's flash was down! Can't believe you warded that bush when 3 people were MIA! GG you ulted at the wrong time and they won a fight!). Getting people who straight up feed is rare, but teams make plays based on item advantages now so a losing lane is almost worse than before.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Sat Dec 21, 2013 7:51 am

Very cool CLG v. ALT game, very back-and-forth. It's hidden on game 3 of the link, starts around 1:14.

Korgan0 · Post by **Korgan0** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:37 am

Yeah, that game was fantastic. GG vs XDGG was really good too, if you ignore the "USA" chants. Edward pulls out Amumu support, along with Deathcap Shyvana and top lane Warwick.

...You Lost Me · Post by **...You Lost Me** » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:18 pm

Support tankmumu was awesome to see. I was also enthralled with the walking zed v. team coast, as it went all the way to the fifth game (game 4 was particularly interesting, 1 and 5 were just stomps). Good job for the dark horse teams.

EDIT: Today's games took ten hours to play through. Damn.

Pseudo Stupidity · Post by **Pseudo Stupidity** » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:16 pm

These charts are neat, particularly the ping chart.

http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legen ... period=all

Challenger players average 27 ping! Makes sense since that's where the actual professionals are, but wow those pings seem low as hell. On a good day my ping is in the upper 90s, but the average for diamond is 58. I want to move somewhere Comcast isn't the only provider. Verizon completely skipped where I moved for some reason, because every surrounding town has them.

Also, lost D2 (and was one game away from D1 promos at one point!) and got it back again. Kind of wondering when the soft reset happens.

Oh, and Rengar is bugged. You can triple Q before you even hit 6. Ban him!