The Gaming Den

In AD&D, Kobolds, Orcs, and Hobgoblins were all "giant classed creatures." Now you may ask what possible universe involves Kobolds and Goblins being classed as Giants, and the answer is "Fuck you." The term "Humanoid" also covers Kobolds and Bugbears, but doesn't include Ettins and does include Lizardmen.

Kobolds have gone back and forth between being mammals and reptiles. The 1981 Fiend Folio talks about Kobold/Goblin offspring and the 1994 Planescape box talks about Kobolds as furry rat people. The final editorial decision that Kobolds are in fact tiny dragon people and definitely not mammals was made in 2000 by 3rd edition. Before then there were mammalian and reptilian Kobolds side by side in simultaneously released products and you could take your pick.

Anyway, the bottom line is that if the Editor of a book in 2006 writes that sidebar about how sometimes they are going to use "Humanoid" to specifically mean Orcs and not Elves they are frankly admitting that some of the content of the book has been sitting on the slush pile for at least seven years and there is absolutely no intention of going through it and editing it for dated content. This is like if a WtF product from 2009 referred to the enemies as "wyrmspawn" or a VtR product from 2009 referred to the bad guys as "the Sabbat." It's just obviously something that was written in reference to an older and deprecated edition and had to have been sitting around on someone's hard drive for years before being text dumped into the final product.

-Username17

D&D claims the copyright on the word “Beholder” but it just occurred to me tonight that the floating giant eyeball monster in Heroes of Might and Magic is called a Beholder. What gives? Isn’t the deal with copyright law that if someone uses your thing and you don’t challenge it that you give it up? Someone with more legal knowledge than me help me out here

Dean wrote:D&D claims the copyright on the word “Beholder” but it just occurred to me tonight that the floating giant eyeball monster in Heroes of Might and Magic is called a Beholder. What gives? Isn’t the deal with copyright law that if someone uses your thing and you don’t challenge it that you give it up? Someone with more legal knowledge than me help me out here

Wizards of the Coast claims 'product identity' on Beholders, which isn't quite the same thing. There's several issues:

• Copywriting RPG rules is pretty much useless, because you can't copyright procedures, only text strings. So you could write a set of rules that do the exact same thing as a Beholder but so long as you don't literally copypasta the text, you aren't violating copyright.
• Most of the Beholderkin, Beholders very much included, are named normal English words. This falls under GW's failed claim on 'Space Marine.' That is, while WotC can claim trademark on the Gauths because that's a made up word, they can't stop you from naming things Eye Tyrants or Evil Eyes or Beholders because those are actual words that mean those things.
• The product identity of Wizards of the Coast can't cover everything that is a big floating eyeball, because that extends to like biblical angels and shit.

So at the end of the day you have the 'Chaos Beast' in Master of Magic or the 'Evil Eye' in Final Fantasy that is exactly a Beholder but not called that. And you have the Beholder in Heroes of Might and Magic that is literally actually called a 'Beholder' but differs trivially in the number of tentacles they have. Wizards of the Coast and TSR before that is of course powerless to stop either formulation because what they actually own is a use of the word 'Beholder' so extremely specific that you don't actually care. Like, really if you just have Beholders and play them completely straight but you draw them differently so they don't have the fish faces they've mysteriously had since 4th edition and don't have the weirdly useless and hard to justify 'charm person' eye laser, you're good.

-Username17

When I google "Hunter", my search result gives me Bloodborne, then american hunters probably from websites selling camo gear or so.

When I google "ranger", I get a lot of cars.



What do you guys get?

"The Hunter Valley, north of Sydney in New South Wales, is one of Australia's major wine regions, with a viticultural history dating back to the early 1800s. Known for varietals such as Semillon and Shiraz, it’s home to numerous wineries, including world-renowned brands and family-run boutique operations. Most are located south of the Hunter River and offer cellar door wine tastings and vineyard tours."

Lots of stuff like that.

Ranger gets me lots of Ford Rangers, and the odd job for Park Rangers.

Hunter gets me a bunch of products: Hunter boots, Email hunter, Hunter Industries irrigation systems, Hunter-brand ceiling fans, and finally the IMDB page for the 84-91 tv series. And my previous searches include a *lot* of Bloodborne and Blizzard.

Ranger gets me Fords, boats, and the wikipedia entry.

Hunter gets me a mix of Bloodborne and people hunting, something called email hunter, and boots, while ranger gets me a bunch of trucks. The latter is understandable because I was hunting for a new vehicle in the last six months.

Hunter: a music video, and accessories for dogs.
Ranger: Ford cars, and a Twitch streamer.

Hunter gives me a german firm for Pet accessories, Hunter Industries, a clothing shop, some music videos and a link to the wikipedia page of Hunter (the word)
ranger gives me the wikipedia page for the word, wiki page for the job, Ford Ranger and a customer services center

no searches for Bloodborne at all (neither in this search nor have I searched for it lately)

Hunter: Rain boots, a cop show from the 80s, an email verification service, and an irrigation system.
Ranger: Trucks, UTVs, boats, the Wikipedia page talking about park rangers.

The websearch for "Ranger" looks exactly like I would imagine it would look if companies either directly bribed the search engines to put their products on top or paid consulting firms to google bomb their products to the top of the algorithm.

-Username17

Hunter: furniture, boots, wines, that email verification service and sprinkler irrigation systems.

Ranger: ford ranger car five times, ranger on wikipedia, then ford ranger on wikipedia. Ford's paying a lot for that placement.

OgreBattle wrote:When I google "Hunter", my search result gives me Bloodborne, then american hunters probably from websites selling camo gear or so.

Boot company, e-mail verification company, irrigation sprinkler company, ceiling fan company, local housing company, wheel alignment machines company, IMDB page on a television series, and local fish and game information for hunters.

OgreBattle wrote:When I google "ranger", I get a lot of cars.

First two are from Ford, then boats, the Wikipedia page on park rangers, a fuckton more Ford results, the Wikitionary for ranger, the Twitch page for a streamer named Ranger, and the page for Apache Ranger.

I'm a little surprised looking at the rest of you, that I didn't get Wikipedia hits for either on the first page. I use Wikipedia quite a lot, and Twitch hardly at all.

OgreBattle wrote:What do you guys get?

I'm using DuckDuckGo and I get:
Hunter: Irrigation, TV series, boots, Wikipedia (hunting), email hunter, Hunter College
Ranger: Ford, boat, Polaris, Shop at Lowes, Wikipedia (park rangers), ink and art supplies

I don't know if my exposure to this image has skewed my search data.
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[/img]

For a D&D type game, I like the idea of small abilities (most feats in 3e really) being a thing player characters gain outside of levels, specific to the campaign.

So if you've uncovered secrets of the dragons, undead, evil cabal you're after you'd get something like the favored enemy stuff. So the early part of the adventure would be info gathering, uncovering weaknesses (so an offensive bonus), drinking from the magic fountain that will protect you from the hydra's poison (a defensive bonus), gaining the trust of the thieves guild (so a temporary minion to direct in the final battle or 'summon' X times) etc.

Basically anything weaker than Koumei's feats per level list:
https://www.google.com/search?domains=t ... CAo&uact=5

'Background' stuff is included in this category

In one of the Conan stories he uses a magic sign to ward off minions of said god, it's a one-off thing Conan learned about and doesn't use later. Aragorn summons a ghost army as part of the story climax instead of "Lvl 6 ranger- summon shamed dead". Orochimaru studies the specific sealing method on the tailed beasts to mess with the Kyuubi sealed in Naruto. Light Yagami figures out a bunch of his target's social vulnerabilities to successfully dimplomance them...

This sort of thing is already there as 'DM pity/viking hat persecution', but calling it out as a distinct space of the game you add and substract things from seems useful, like when those 'big free actions' were formalized as swift actions.


What's a good word for this kind of thing? Bonus Feat? For a heartbreaker I'd take 'level appropriate feat' and call that a Trait...

(ah thought Pokemon called those traits, actually they're Abilities and that's not a good word to throw into D&D games to mean that)

OgreBattle wrote:What's a good word for this kind of thing? Bonus Feat? For a heartbreaker I'd take 'level appropriate feat' and call that a Trait. That's what Pokemon games call the passive ability all Pokemon have that range from mastery of punches to floating to reactively burning with a flaming body.

I've seen Scott Gearin use "Technique" in Alabaster for stuff about this level, with "Talent" being the class ability/feat level stuff.

We use Talent for our Heartbreaker.

Has anyone compiled a list of spells that appear in multiple editions of D&D and how they changed over time?

jt wrote:Has anyone compiled a list of spells that appear in multiple editions of D&D and how they changed over time?

TheAlexandrian has a post on create water and create food: https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/76 ... ts-in-play

Delta, a blogger who mostly looks and OD&D and B/X, has an intermittent series called "spells through the ages" where he does what you ask for. Here's an example: https://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2011/07/ ... eball.html
If you google "delta dnd spells through the age", you should find more.

The latter link mentions 3e's fireball, but it doesn't discuss the crucial point that, between TSR and WotC D&D, most evocation spells had the same damage, but, by virtue of gaining Con modifiers and hit die, most monsters had noticeably increased hit points.

You also want to keep in mind that, especially in the wild TSR days, consistency wasn't a hugely prized virtue. So a module like Queen of the Demonweb Pits might casually alter how a lot of spells worked.

Thanks! Both of those links were great, and in much more in depth than what I was hoping for.

When did D&D warrior type characters start getting unique mechanics like barbarian rage, samurai/bushi/monk? ki or kiai?

AD&D 1e's Unearthed Arcana, I think. It had barbarians and cavaliers in it - the latter looked like wish-fulfillment enough that we didn't use them.

Edit: you could reasonably call the monk in AD&D 1e's players handbook a warrior-type character with its own mechanics. Weird, clunky and not especially powerful but it fits your fairly vague description.

AD&D PHB also had Rangers and Paladins, and got limited unique abilities as well as stuff from other people's spell lists. Rangers did extra damage (per level) against "giant class" monsters for example.

I am not a lawyer, but I believe that it is trademarks that you risk losing by failing to defend them, while copyright does not have any such requirement.