Frank and K, don't make me beg.

[K]

So I poked around to see if the discourse on Paizo has gotten any better.

I think I found the funniest thing ever. Some guy tried to do an evaluation of some mechanics, and he immediately was accused of being Frank.

The bar has gotten quite low over there when people trying to address mechanics problems are immediately demonized by being accused of being someone known for being demonized.

[Bigode]

So I poked around to see if the discourse on Paizo has gotten any better.

I think I found the funniest thing ever. Some guy tried to do an evaluation of some mechanics, and he immediately was accused of being Frank.

The bar has gotten quite low over there when people trying to address mechanics problems are immediately demonized by being accused of being someone known for being demonized.

Link, please.

[Voss]

Don't forget that Frank *must* have Asperger's syndrome. Because, you know, thats nice and trendy and an easy excuse for anyone on the internets these days.

An excuse for what?

At this point? Honestly anything.
If you're using it, its an excuse to be an ass. If someone else is using it, its shorthand for 'this fucker is a mental retard'. In the actual sense of 'He's retarded', without the PC issues.

[Maxus]

Er...I didn't realize that it was viewed as such these days.

Of course, I kinda have a vested interest in this because I actually am Asperger's, and got diagnosed when I was around 15, and hadn't ever heard of it before then.

It really sucks how a genuine condition gets jumped on as a bandwagon, until the cynical assume that everyone who says they have it must be lying or using it as an excuse...

[JonSetanta]

At this point? Honestly anything.
If you're using it, its an excuse to be an ass. If someone else is using it, its shorthand for 'this fucker is a mental retard'. In the actual sense of 'He's retarded', without the PC issues.

That's a fucking copout and ridiculous assumption, but not a new one to me.

High functioning autism is a valid reason for social difficulties as much as any bipolar's mood swings disrupt the lives of everyone around them, or ADHD's complete inability to stop acting like an attention whore.
I was diagnosed only a year ago and I'm fucking glad, since it's better to be labeled that and get put on a plan for career training than to be mismedicated for schizophrenia, ADD, bipolar, or "post traumatic stress disorder".
In retrospect, I wish I had this service available since I was a kid. It would have prevented a lot of pain, failure, confusion, mistreatment, and general waste of a childhood.
So, think what you want, I know I can't change your view (believe me, with people like you, I've tried. doesn't work.), so take it as-is.

But since you've brought the subject up...
Yes I wholly believe Frank has The Autisms.
Maybe he can look people in the eye for more than a few seconds without creeping terror setting in, maybe he's learned the Normal Body Language, but online it's blatantly obvious that there are difficulties with tact.
He's a logic-minded individual to an extent where social delicacies (read: irrational emo fuckers) seem like houses of cards.
And I have no problem with that.

[Calibron]

...what? Frank's just abrasive and honest. And seriously, it's kinda creepy that you guys are so actively and openly discussing someone else's medical issues without any proof or even input from that person. At least, I know I'd be weirded out by this if you were talking about me.

[K]

So I poked around to see if the discourse on Paizo has gotten any better.

I think I found the funniest thing ever. Some guy tried to do an evaluation of some mechanics, and he immediately was accused of being Frank.

The bar has gotten quite low over there when people trying to address mechanics problems are immediately demonized by being accused of being someone known for being demonized.

Link, please.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/pa ... Pathfinder

Kind of sad, actually. It looks like he wasn't even critiquing mechanics, but just asking about Paizo's general vision and playtesting strategy.

[Surgo]

Whatever you say, Dr. Sigma999. Please go through medical school and become a psychiatrist before you try diagnosing somebody else, because at least then it won't be you talking out of your ass.

[fbmf]

But since you've brought the subject up...
Yes I wholly believe Frank has The Autisms.
Maybe he can look people in the eye for more than a few seconds without creeping terror setting in, maybe he's learned the Normal Body Language, but online it's blatantly obvious that there are difficulties with tact.
He's a logic-minded individual to an extent where social delicacies (read: irrational emo fuckers) seem like houses of cards.
And I have no problem with that.

I have met Frank in person twice for several hours at a time. I've never once got the impression that he so much as has Social Anxiety Disorder. of course, my state licenses have nothing to do with diagnosing any kind of disease or condition. I fully admit this is anecdotal.

But seriously...would you say Dr. House has "the autisms"? Does Sherlock Holmes? Both of these folks, though fictional (and allowing for the fact Sherlock was product of the time he lived in) can be just a sabrasive if not more so than Frank. To be honest, in person, Frank's one of the most easy going people I've ever met.

Maybe it is an act he puts on for me.

Game On,
fbmf

[JonSetanta]

I have met Frank in person twice for several hours at a time. I've never once got the impression that he so much as has Social Anxiety Disorder. of course, my state licenses have nothing to do with diagnosing any kind of disease or condition. I fully admit this is anecdotal.

But seriously...would you say Dr. House has "the autisms"? Does Sherlock Holmes? Both of these folks, though fictional (and allowing for the fact Sherlock was product of the time he lived in) can be just a abrasive if not more so than Frank. To be honest, in person, Frank's one of the most easy going people I've ever met.

Maybe it is an act he puts on for me.

I don't watch House, but Holmes fits the description.
Easy going is a personality trait but autism is a means for expression (or lack thereof), so while a person could be 'cheerful' or 'dour' or 'sociable' or 'aggressive' the autistic phenotype does indeed shape how one communicates and thinks, in contrast to the 'norm', in varied degrees.
Same tune, different octave or key.
While it is possible to hide certain methods of expression you'd have to see someone behave in a wider variety of situations to make a judgement like "They are Asperger."

Why do some of you here believe "the diagnosis" to be some kind of social death sentence?

While it might seem hasty for me to assume such a trait apparently taken as a flaw to Frank (and no, I don't find it in bad taste to do such a thing, Calibron) it is a validly researched yet unlicensed observation.
No one needs a degree to make a statement.

And I don't give a flying fuck if I'm right or wrong but the opinion is out there. While I'd love for Frank to confirm or deny The Autisms in his own experience, it's up to him and I'm moving on regardless of the outcome.

[Koumei]

No one needs a degree to make a statement.

True, but a degree really helps in making the statement valid or widely accepted.

Example: I have been excessively alert and active at night, unable to sleep, and waking up really sluggish. It is my medical statement that I have lupus, as well as lung cancer. The best I can do is take exciting amounts of hydrocodone (Vicodin) for the pain.

See, I made the statement, but no-one would believe that and for good reason. Which is a pity, because I could do with the hydrocodone to relax.

I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea of discussing another member's mental health here. It seems rude - and let me clarify, it seems rude within the context of this message board. Because I know there are things that are acceptable here yet considered rude elsewhere. Such as use of the word "fuck".

[CatharzGodfoot]

No, you're right. Discussing someone's mental health publicly in a non-joking fashion and without their consent is incredibly rude.

[Draco_Argentum]

It wounds me that you would think that I would be so shallow as to merely check his Avatar Profile.

My apologies, that would have been grossly out of character for you.

My point stands regardless. Even though this is the internet there are still some social standards. Not spreading peoples personal details around is one of them. It is pretty much an escalation from stupid internet argument to something that might actually matter.

Proving those guys wrong doesn't require anything more than some logic and a bit of thought. We should focus on logic and science along with a total refusal to put up with people who think their opinion is at all valuable when it can be proven wrong. I would like us to have some more members and getting a reputation for being rude instead of being intelligent won't attract anyone useful.

[PhoneLobster]

Turnabout is fair game. That's like, the law.

And Amazon reviews and public user profiles are PUBLIC information.

[Voss]

Why do some of you here believe "the diagnosis" to be some kind of social death sentence?

Because it is? Its damn rare to meet someone that doesn't treat people with some sort of mental difficulty/disorder/problem as some sort of defective monkey-child. Something amusing that they can pat on the head when it does something right, but ignore it and try it like a pariah the rest of the time.

There is a reason for the short bus and separate classrooms in schools, you know. Out of sight, out of mind is a comfortable thing.

But you know, I only brought up the statement from the shmuck on the Paizo boards as an illustration of the kind of contemptible little shits they are. I didn't expect anyone here to jump on that particular bandwagon.

[Bigode]

Koumei, why do the misdiagnosis jokes always involve lupus?

[Cielingcat]

Because of House.

[CatharzGodfoot]

"Contemptible shits" might be going a bit too far in the common case.

[Bigode]

Because of House.

That could've been a lot clearer ...

[CatharzGodfoot]

Google.

[Draco_Argentum]

Turnabout is fair game. That's like, the law.

If the objective is to have fun trolling, then yes. I'm not on TDG to enjoy internet drama, though.

[Koumei]

Bigode: In the television show "House", starting in the second season, they always test for Lupus. It isn't actually that common a condition, however there are several other conditions almost identical (except all with different treatments). Still, someone always ends up suggesting "It could be Lupus" or testing for it.

In season 3, it just becomes a joke. House went for his secret stash of Vicodin, opening a book on Lupus which he'd hollowed out to store the pills in.

"You hide your pills in a book on Lupus?"
"It's never Lupus!"

Then in season 4, it finally is. He's amazed and ecstatic.

Warning, contains NSFW Rule 34:
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/House

[Voss]

"Contemptible shits" might be going a bit too far in the common case.

Meh. It struck me as the most appropriate term to use. The 'Yay Frank is gone' thread turned into 'Lets vilify and belittle anyone who disagrees with us in every way we can think of'

[virgil]

*sigh* At least Lich-Loved and Aubrey aren't jumping in, and I'm not alone anymore in trying to defend the playtesting concept. Granted, it's only two against a horde of stubborn idiots.

It's like my old, crappy DM. They want the power baseline to be the fighter, and will fight tooth and nail against anything that says otherwise.

[K]

Fighter could be the baseline. It just means that 5-6 classes have to be rewritten.

If fighter is not the baseline, it means that 2-4 classes have to be rewrittten. It's a matter of efficiency, really.