Frank, Paizo, and my thoughts

[Neeeek]

you've got something of a point.

it's an insult towards yourself more in the sense that you yelled at him as he was leaving. it's akin to yelling into the wind. it makes you look like a fool. but if he doesn't leave, i'll back off what i've said.

Whether or not he ever posts again, I'd be shocked if he isn't reading this thread. The kind of people who make a big deal out of leaving come in two flavors: 1) People who are honestly offended and 2) people who are attention whore drama queens. Group #1 generally doesn't start stuff. So my guess is Jerry is in Group #2.

BTW, Frank doesn't talk particularly fast. He doesn't talk slow either. Just saying.

[Prak]

Also another thing, in a playtest people shouldn't praise you for getting shit to work properly. They should only tell you the shit that breaks and how they broke it. There is a whole thread about "what they did right."

It wasn't just playtests that Frank criticizes; he criticizes a lot of existing rules and doesn't always give constructive criticism; many times, he just attacks people like Caedrus. Frank was treating Caedrus like he was a professional game designer, and seemed angry that some guy on the Internet couldn't write a class properly.

Frank's standards are too high for Internet message board posters.

It was a message board with the purpose of playtesting a game and fixing possible problems, god damned these people better be able to write a decent class or the product is fucked.

'scuse me, that's inaccurate, I should have said "This product is god damned fucked because their playtesters don't know how to write a class."

The pathfinder board was put on rather as an advertising campaign (and a successful one) instead of the publicly reported purpose of a sounding board about this "open-playtest" and any bugs that could be found.

successful? bull shit. If it were successful, most of us would be on board with it, rather than collectively knowing it's all a crock and the designers realy don't want to fix 3.5. We want 3.5 fixed, Pathfinder's not doing that, we can stick with our old books and take friends or loved ones out to dinner with the $30 we would be willing to spend on a workable 3.5 fix that isn't coming from any publisher any time soon. There's also the fact that the board was created with a dual purpose, one being to advertise, the other being to get gamers to do Paizo's work for it. Unfortunately for Paizo those of us who were willing to help presented fixes they didn't really want, and those people who didn't present those fixes were perfectly happy to get on their knees and suck Paizo's shrunken dick.

It's very simple Jerry. Frank is a dick to separate those people who are capable of differentiating logic from emotion.

thank you, I said this a page or so ago.

Personally, I never have met Frank or heard his voice, but I always hear constrained laughter in his posts.

same. I don't take anything frank writes seriously except actual critiques on the game.

[Talisman]

The pathfinder board was put on rather as an advertising campaign (and a successful one) instead of the publicly reported purpose of a sounding board about this "open-playtest" and any bugs that could be found.

successful? bull shit. If it were successful, most of us would be on board with it, rather than collectively knowing it's all a crock and the designers realy don't want to fix 3.5.

I think he meant "successful" in the sense that it was a successful advertising campaign, and it was that. Lots of people heard the name Pathfinder, and knew it was Paizo "saving D&D" and "fixing the bugs" and whatnot.

It was basically a publicity stunt.

[K]

It's been said before that Frank and I should record our marathon 3-4 hour discussions about DnD. Apparently, even non-DnD players seem to have fun with it.

I personally like the time I said that I could name ten "epic dragon" concepts better than the ones in the Epic Level handbook in only ten minutes.

I lost. It took me twelve minutes.

[Cynic]

The pathfinder board was put on rather as an advertising campaign (and a successful one) instead of the publicly reported purpose of a sounding board about this "open-playtest" and any bugs that could be found.

successful? bull shit. If it were successful, most of us would be on board with it, rather than collectively knowing it's all a crock and the designers realy don't want to fix 3.5. We want 3.5 fixed, Pathfinder's not doing that, we can stick with our old books and take friends or loved ones out to dinner with the $30 we would be willing to spend on a workable 3.5 fix that isn't coming from any publisher any time soon. There's also the fact that the board was created with a dual purpose, one being to advertise, the other being to get gamers to do Paizo's work for it. Unfortunately for Paizo those of us who were willing to help presented fixes they didn't really want, and those people who didn't present those fixes were perfectly happy to get on their knees and suck Paizo's shrunken dick.

Mrr.. The quote was referring to the success of the ad-campaign rather than anything else which Talisman also seems to have pointed out. Also not to come off as a grandstanding ass but I rather my words aren't put into someone else's mouth. Especially when they are misinterpreted and they might be blamed for them. Jerry can take the blame for the numerous idiocies that he posts. But i can stand up for whatever you think are my own faults.

IN retrospect: I probably do come off as a grandstanding ass but oh well.

[JonSetanta]

IN retrospect: I probably do come off as a grandstanding ass but oh well.

Actually, no.

[Draco_Argentum]

I personally like the time I said that I could name ten "epic dragon" concepts better than the ones in the Epic Level handbook in only ten minutes.

I lost. It took me twelve minutes.

That'd be interesting, the ELH ones only had Lockwood's art going for them.

[Aktariel]

I could name ten "epic dragon" concepts better than the ones in the Epic Level handbook.

So what were they?

[SunTzuWarmaster]

Two Things:

1 - I left, graduated from college, got a job, got all my shit in order (health insurance wtf!), stopped reading for a month, and came back. This is the internet, none of you likely care that I was gone, and I'm not really gonna miss Jerry (in the event that he is leaving 'for realz' this time) or anyone else that leaves. 'Dramawhoring' as put by another poster is retarded and preteen (I did this as a preteen on the internets).

2 - Competitive nature often gets a bad rap. There are two sides to the coin:
The first side is that when playing a game or having an argument, you attempt to win (how much you will sacrafice to win is determined by how competitive you are). On my father's first date with my step-mother, they played minigolf. Going into the final hole, my step-mother was 4 strokes in the lead. My father attempted to knock her ball into the water in order to win. This is an example of bad side competitive nature. It also involves taking sides in arguments that you don't personally believe so that the other person can be proven wrong.

The second side is the innate desire to be better than people. Rather than being destructive as the first part, this side often represents the need to create. This is the reason many people go to college (to be more educated than other people and make more money than other people). This is the reason businesses are successful and art becomes 'radical'.

Typically both sides are represented in a personality. Although, I don't like all of the discussions around here about how 'Frank' the site is, you cannot deny that Frank exhibits both sides of the competitive coin. He writes harsh arguments on the internet while writing primary DnD material that is (as a fact) better than the commercial DnD product while pursuing a medical degree. Both the combative side and the 'king of the mountain' side are represented.

[Talisman]

Welcome back, SunTzu. Your absence has, indeed, been noticed.

And I pretty much agree with your second point. Frank is (hell, most of the regular Denizens here are) very creative, intelligent, and sometimes excessively harsh in their criticism.

I may not necessarily agree with Frank's opinions, but thy certainly make me re-examine my own opinions.

[Angry_Pessimist]

Jesus, Jerry, grow up! It's just some dude on the Internet that you'll probably never meet! At least you don't live in a podunk town where everyone hates your guts.