The possible death of "Otherkin-ism"?

God_of_Awesome · Post by **God_of_Awesome** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:15 am

Edit: Ya know what? No. I'm being a dick. I have my beliefs and I simply need to not be sensitive about them because that's only gonna lead to a world of hurt and disappointment.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:30 am

Yeah, it's the internet, it's not siris bizniz. I don't even know what you said at first, but, eh, sometimes you just have to hit submit, think a moment, and then edit, hoping no one saw what you just said. I've done it, that's for damned sure.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:03 am

Maj wrote:It's reassuring to know that no matter what anyone writes, the posters here will always fire off the same old comments in reply. You guys are getting too predictable.

It's a god thing you stopped even pretending to have any reason to believe any of the crap you believe some time ago, otherwise I'm sure the cognitive dissonance would force the bullshit out of your eyes and mouth.

God of Awesome wrote:All I have is a hope, no proof, no facts, no science. Just hope. Take that away, tell me that all I am is a piece of flesh that happened to gain sentience and cognition, convince me so utterly I cannot denie it and that their will be nothing afterwards, well I'll go Cthulhu fucking mad.

I will laugh and shout and kill without worry or care because it doesn't matter. But this is getting into philosophy so I'll stop here.

Wait, what? You need the promise of some sort of eternal reckoning to try to live your life in a moral fashion? That somehow if things that don't exist, don't exist, you're going to stop being a moral agent?

What the fuck is wrong with you? There are billions of people who do not believe that anything is going to go around judging them by any kind of standards after they die in any meaningful fashion, and yet they are able to get up in the morning, eat breakfast, and treat other people around them with respect. The respect that they, as sapient lumps of meat, totally deserve.

Divine rewards and punishment are a completely shallow and pointless reason to do anything. What you're claiming is that you are a dangerous dog on a chain who would kill a man in cold blood for a Klondike bar. That's some seriously fucked up shit. If you found out that the list of things that you were divinely punished for did not include rape (as the "Holy Bible's" list does not), would you go around raping people? If you were going to get a gold star in the hereafter for chopping the clitoris off of your little sister, would you do that?

People who say that the only thing that is stopping them from doing horrible things is the threat of the whims and opinions of an invisible sky fairy are claiming that they are dangerous lunatics who could at any time snap and start doing horrible things just because they thought that the invisible and inaudible list of things to do and not do had been revised - something they are obviously capable of because that list is by definition filled out with no evidence at all.

The fact is that hard atheists don't run around the streets, smashing open the heads of children and feasting on the brains inside.

-Username17

Red_Rob · Post by **Red_Rob** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:52 am

FrankTrollman wrote:The fact is that hard atheists don't run around the streets, smashing open the heads of children and feasting on the brains inside.

-Username17

Speak for yourself.

I know the only thing stopping me from going on a murderous cannibal rampage is the ever-present threat that some horny devil will spend the rest of eternity shoving his red hot poker into me. Wait, that didn't come out right.

Just as a question, what do Christians believe happens to masochists that do evil deeds?

Cielingcat · Post by **Cielingcat** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:05 am

Red Rob, that is completely false. That is obviously a kitten eating the brains of an adult cat, and is therefore the opposite of what Frank said.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:31 am

Red Rob wrote:Just as a question, what do Christians believe happens to masochists that do evil deeds?

That is an excellent question. And I note that you formulated it correctly. hat is, what do Christians believe rather than what Christianity says. Because of course, the things that Christians are formally required to profess are so ludicrous hat even they don't actually believe them. What they actually believe is a muddled collection of contradictory aphorisms that they cannot reconcile and leave up to religious authorities to assure them are reconcilable by magic that we do not and cannot understand.

The general claim of hell is that you are punished infinitely and forever to punish you for your misdeeds. And that furthermore, one of hose evil acts is "being born" (original sin) - a point that they try not to dwell on very much, because it makes their god look like a douche. This goes hand in hand with them believing that individual wrong acts are wrong, and that you should not do them - despite the fact that their beliefs vis a vis being damned or saved indicate that there is absolutely no difference in outcomes between someone who tips the balance slightly and someone who tips the balance all the way. Believing simultaneously that everyone who isn't saved gets infinite punishment and they deserve it and that individual acts can be meaningfully considered good or bad is just part of a long list of nonsensical assertions that Christians do their level best to maintain belief in.

Now as for individual Christian beliefs... it varies tremendously. Dante's Inferno classically claimed that there were different "levels" of hell for people whose sins were more or less extreme. And despite the fact that Dante was just a poet hired to write political propaganda and had no basis in scripture at all - that is the work that most Christians turn to when describing what they think hell is and for. And since there are indeed places in Dante's version of hell that are seriously not that bad, most Christians when it comes down to it, actually believe that one could plausibly spend an eternity in hell and make a life out of it.

Many other Christians genuinely believe that getting sent to hell puts you in Satan's army. And most people when pressed will admit that Satan is or was one of the top archangels and presumably is a beautiful winged dude with a flaming sword just as Michael is. And thus, when pressed, will basically admit that not being saved is pretty much the same deal as being saved - in that you are going to be impressed into an army and have to fight the other side. They of course, claim that it is predestined that their side is going to win, which gets into the whole thing where they believe in prophecy and free will at the same time even though that makes no sense.

Great discussion about morality, that GoA should watch in its entirety: Here.

-Username17

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:11 pm

God_of_Awesome wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:On the other hand, stuff like Souls can be disproven simply by thinking about it...
Oh really? That's quite a definitive claim. I still believe in souls, so if you don't mind, enlighten me.

Not to go too far back in time. But I could have called that in advance. You know how?

You have to first think about it. Since you never actually think about anything...

God_of_Awesome · Post by **God_of_Awesome** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:19 pm

As I said, I was being over sensitive dick.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:06 pm

I'm not even sure what the fuck a soul is supposed to be. Seems like every person and religion has their own pet definition.

God_of_Awesome · Post by **God_of_Awesome** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:14 am

I always figured it was a disembodied remainders of one's intellect. Although, I never bought the dualistic approach to it either and figured their was something physical to it.

Post by **fbmf** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:05 am

(I'm going to regret asking this...)

What are otherkin?

Game On,
fbmf

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:12 am

It's where you believe you are a cat or a dog or a werewolf or a vampire or a soviet tank or a Rhinestone Cowboy.

While being in your current body.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:18 am

I have the soul of Communist Ireland. It's very hard to express myself.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:00 am

fbmf wrote:(I'm going to regret asking this...)

What are otherkin?

Game On,
fbmf

They are people who self identify as other than human. That is, they identify as other than their kin (who are humans), hence the name. This is fundamentally different from identifying as other than your socially assigned gender, or other than your parents' culture. Because those are just arbitrary social constructs. These people self identify as other than their demonstrable cladistic assignment. Which means that rather than making perfectly reasonable statements like "I feel more comfortable wearing a skirt." they make completely insane statements like "I am spiritually speaking, a gryphon."

Did I say gryphon? Oh hellz yes I did. Because Otherkin don't bother limiting themselves to claiming that they are non-human animals, or living things or even things that exist. There are Otherkin who believe that they are lions and dinosaurs and shit, but there are also Otherkin that believe that they have the souls of motorcycles and blenders, Otherkin who believe that they are vampires and dragons, and even Otherkin who believe that they are fictional characters like Garfield or Cloud from Final Fantasy VII. The first documented use of the word Otherkin on the internets was a group of people who claimed to be elves. You know, in their soul or some shit.

We all know that gender is a social construct. Just look at that manly skirt on Angus or the womanly pants on Princess Jasmine. But the Na'vi from Avatar aren't real, so you can't be one. And that is why the Otherkin will always be made fun of, even while Transhumans are turning themselves into distributed intelligences in swarms of insectile drones.

-Username17

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:17 am

Hence my temptation to troll otherkin forums as a Tardis-kin, with posts laden with sexual innuendo.

schpeelah · Post by **schpeelah** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:33 pm

And for every crazy group, there's an even crazier extreme group within it. For Otherkin, it's a cult of FF7 otherkin centered around a guy who claims to be Sepiroth. Dead fucking serious.

Gaze into the insanity.

God_of_Awesome · Post by **God_of_Awesome** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:37 am

schpeelah wrote:And for every crazy group, there's an even crazier extreme group within it. For Otherkin, it's a cult of FF7 otherkin centered around a guy who claims to be Sepiroth. Dead fucking serious.

Gaze into the insanity.

Which is too bad. As I said, most other-kin are odd but harmless. Most highly religious people are odd but harmless. Then you get these really crazy fuckers and everyone goes, "See? SEE!? This is why other-kin-ism is bad!"

Of course, if the regular odd but harmless people start making public asses of themselves, they should be told so. See above when I was being an ass.