More bad news for D&D?

[Doom]

Wowsers, those are some brutal 3-cost creatures.

Back in my day, a 1/3 for 2 mana was adequate (since it could stop basic Knights or goblins, the main issues for blue), and that bonus power would be awesome.

But if a guy is tossing down 4/5's for three, then that means I'm down a good 12 life before I'll really be in a position to exploit this guy.

But I don't play constructed anymore...every other round in the tournaments was me against some idiot with a deck downloaded off the 'net, and/or a direct damage deck where what I did was irrelevant to the other player's decision-making.

For sealed? That thing is freakin' awesome.

[Zinegata]

Regarding Counter switching:

1) I have no idea what the present state of anything is, I played Standard like 4 years ago, and a couple Limited Decks two years ago.

Back when I did play, it was primarily Legacy.

2) There are lots of ways to counterize a card in Legacy, creature to creature token swap is one.

There is also "sacrifice X creatures, place X counters on a creature that uses counters" card which I used in combination with my squirrel deck to fuck around.

Legacy is so painfully fast that if you intend to get this guy to level whatever any turn after 4 he's just a mana sink, but yeah, In legacy, I can think of several ways to just add level counters to this card like a bitch.

What he said. I am not very familiar with Legacy and my only real recent reading into this subject is the Dark Depths combo .

Doom314->

Quite. The only real thing "balancing" most of these new creatures is that they tend to be very dependent on one color, whereas current magic decks tend to run at least two colors (often 3). In theory, this delays casting these boys for a turn or two. In practice, good mana fixing make these guys come out by turn 3 anyway even in Sealed.

(Good luck getting Chronologist in Sealed though. The thing's a bloody Mythic)

[Smeelbo]

I notice that these creatures that "level up" seemed to have their level abilities in three "tiers." Perhaps we could call them Heroic, Paragon, and Epic?

Smeelbo
Abuser of BBCodes

[RandomCasualty2]

And we haven't even gotten started on talking about other spells yet, especially when mono-blue decks generally pack a ton of card-drawing spells at the lower casting cost slots (which you can't cast if you keep nursing the Chronologist).

While a lot of what you said is very true, you're forgetting that taking more turns means you do draw more cards anyway.

Lets also remember that the chronologist level up isn't a mandatory cost. It's not like an upkeep that you always have to invest in it, even if a dire threat comes up. And you can start chipping away at its level ups in very granular units of 1 mana. So even if you wanted to cast an unsummon or some other small casting utility magic, you still can, and whatever mana you have left over can still go towards leveling it. Now, most of the time, it's worth investing all your mana into it, but you still have the option of doing otherwise.

And hell, having a 1/3 creature for 2 casting cost really isn't bad in itself. It can't rush well, but fuck you're playing monoblue so you don't rush anyway.

[Zinegata]

While a lot of what you said is very true, you're forgetting that taking more turns means you do draw more cards anyway.

Two things. First, like many have already mentioned, pretty much all competitive formats nowadays are very fast. Most games will already be decided by what happens in the first 4 turns of the game.

Secondly, you don't get card advantage this way unless you manage 2:1 exchanges (not bloody likely). Control is in large part about having an end-game card advantage.

Lets also remember that the chronologist level up isn't a mandatory cost. It's not like an upkeep that you always have to invest in it, even if a dire threat comes up. And you can start chipping away at its level ups in very granular units of 1 mana. So even if you wanted to cast an unsummon or some other small casting utility magic, you still can, and whatever mana you have left over can still go towards leveling it. Now, most of the time, it's worth investing all your mana into it, but you still have the option of doing otherwise.

Again, I reiterate: Sorcery speed. This is a BIG deal. If you want to spend on the Chronologist, you have to do this on your main step.

If you are playing control, you always want to start the opponent's turn with some mana on hand. So you can cast counterspells and other shenanigans to disrupt your opponent's game plan. Merely having mana can often be a deterrent.

Chronologist goes contrary to this. It's asking you to tap yourself out on your OWN turn. If you're down to zero mana when you start the opponent's turn, he can have the confidence to say "Okay, everything my opponent has is on the board. No surprise tricks he can spring". Which is a simply golden advantage.

Seriously, Sorcery speed is a big deal. And 1/3 creature, even at 2, is honestly just taking up space when you already have 4/5 hulkers at 3.

Also, do you even *know* what else you can get for 3 blue mana a turn? Not a fucking Hurloon Minotaur, especially not in present-day Magic. There are lots of solid, often game-winning cards that you can cast with 3 blue. Honestly, enough with the idea that "3 mana spells are useless in the face of higher-casting cost spells". It should die in a fire. It's simply not true.

Chronologist is a creature that asks you to spend 1 colorless and 8 blue mana for the ability to take double turns. But if you're gonna essentially spend all your mana on it for turns 2, 3, and 4, then all you've really done is to give up 3 turns of activity for the possibility of getting double turns later. And I say possibility because this guy dies to even the simplest removal spells like Journey to Nowhere (1W).

[Ravengm]

What he said. I am not very familiar with Legacy and my only real recent reading into this subject is the Dark Depths combo .

The Dark Depths combo deck uses this to get the combo going. There was the Balduvian Frostwaker/Fate Transfer thing that went around for a while, but the combo wasn't strong enough to be tournament viable until the Hexmage popped up. So the strategy is just to remove those counters entirely, rather than shifting them around.

There is also "sacrifice X creatures, place X counters on a creature that uses counters" card which I used in combination with my squirrel deck to fuck around.

Do you remember what it's called? I've done a bit of searching and the closest thing I can come up with is creatures like this, which don't quite serve the same purpose.

[Ravengm]

Also, I dug into the comp rules and found the entry for counters (emphasis mine):

120.1. A counter is a marker placed on an object or player that modifies its characteristics and/or interacts with a rule, ability, or effect. Counters are not objects and have no characteristics. Notably, a counter is not a token, and a token is not a counter. Counters with the same name or description are interchangeable.

So counters are unique based on their name and description.