The Gaming Den

Seerow wrote:You mean the salaries that all just got a +15% boost as a result of the kickstarter

"Salaries"? Hahaha.

Really? Could you link me to where Exalted 3 retails?

If I remember right, the original Exalted deluxe edition cost $70 or $75 (granted, this was like 12 years ago), for basically the book they're pimping here, maybe slightly shorter and without full color, plus an artbook and a slipcase. So they've basically raised the price by half again to go to full color and with an embossed cover. How much did the fancy leatherette 3E hardbacks go for? That would be the natural point of comparison, since they were already in full color.

The super deluxe edition is kind of neat as an idea, and I'm enough of a sucker for nice-looking RPG books that I'd actually consider it, but nearly four hundred dollars is kind of a bridge too far. For me, at least; I guess at least 150 people disagree.

The original Exalted deluxe was super high quality, had beautiful art drawn just for it, came in a nice slipcase, had gilt-edged pages, was bound significantly better (I think; I can't say for certain right now) etc. The list just goes on, and on, and on. It was not standard White Wolf fare; that book had some of the highest printing values I've seen. The best comparison would be something like the Warhammer collectors editions*. Also, it came bundled with another book on the making of Exalted. That retailed for $50, and reasonably so. If 3E was charging $110 for something comparable, that would be completely understandable.

Instead, they're asking for that price for a perfect bound, print-on-demand piece of crap, sight unseen, on the theory that maybe they'll print some different doodles on the cover?

I don't think so.



*I found this while looking for information on the various editions' bindings, and wanted to pass it on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jG0iZWspHs

fectin wrote:*I found this while looking for information on the various editions' bindings, and wanted to pass it on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jG0iZWspHs

Now those are some fancy books.

Especially the one with the wax seal on the inside.

fectin wrote:Instead, they're asking for that price for a perfect bound, print-on-demand piece of crap, sight unseen, on the theory that maybe they'll print some different doodles on the cover?

None of the physical books you get by pledging to the Kickstarter are PoD.

Plague of Hats wrote:None of the physical books you get by pledging to the Kickstarter are PoD.

Oh? My mistake then; that was not apparent from the descriptions. Who is publishing them, and what binding are they using?

I've outlined the extent of my knowledge; I don't know what company OPP uses for traditional printing or the technical details. It might have come up during the V20 or W20 deluxe roll outs

Well, these prices confirm that they have completely given up on attracting new players and are concentrating on milking the devoted crowd of ultrafanboys. Given that the design team is incompetent even by the standards of Exalted gameline (seeing as the Infernals book is considered the crowning achievement of the people involved, and it is 1E Lunars-level terrible), this may be quite wise from the businness standpoint.

Schleiermacher wrote:Backwards compatible with the 1E fluff.

This statement is about as meaningful as "backwards compatible with everything that (according to your, the consumer's, opinion) is good and wholesome". 1E already had a lot of outright contradictions. If you take just 1E Core, Storyteller's Companion, Scavenger Sons, Creatures of the Wild, Games of Divinity, and the Dragonblooded book, they will picture you a completely different (if vague) world than the later books in the edition. And 1E is still the edition where 4 splatbooks out of 6 (or 5 out of 7, if you count minor supernaturals from the Player's Guide) totally suck donkey balls, and the one of the two decent ones doesn't interact with the main setting in any interesting fashion. So excuse me if I don't believe in the writers' ability to pick things that are actually good from 1E.

FatR wrote:This statement is about as meaningful as "backwards compatible with everything that (according to your, the consumer's, opinion) is good and wholesome". 1E already had a lot of outright contradictions. If you take just 1E Core, Storyteller's Companion, Scavenger Sons, Creatures of the Wild, Games of Divinity, and the Dragonblooded book, they will picture you a completely different (if vague) world than the later books in the edition. And 1E is still the edition where 4 splatbooks out of 6 (or 5 out of 7, if you count minor supernaturals from the Player's Guide) totally suck donkey balls, and the one of the two decent ones doesn't interact with the main setting in any interesting fashion. So excuse me if I don't believe in the writers' ability to pick things that are actually good from 1E.

If you look at the actual context of that statement, what was I talking about?

Exalted 3e Kickstarter wrote: The designers have suggested the following books will be useful for players and Storytellers of Exalted 3rd Edition:

Scavenger Sons
Creatures of the Wyld
Games of Divinity
Savage Seas

Are those three of the five books you mentioned as being good, in contrast to the later books of 1E? And Savage Seas, which is not part of any "later books" since it was published before Games of Divinity? Why, yes!

You disingenious twit.

Someone broke the thread.

Josh_Kablack wrote:Their price point is fine, as is evidenced by the fact that they hit their fundraising goal.

So basically you're saying Jack the Ripper was fine because he was never caught.

While a good percentage of E.A's crap can be laid at the door of the idiots who vote them as Worst Company in America but still buy their games anyway, that doesn't make their business practices right.

Schleiermacher wrote: If you look at the actual context of that statement, what was I talking about?

If you think that by answering to your statement on this board I should also at the same time answer to declarations of intent which I didn't read, because I have zero trust in people, making these declarations, and not interested in their Kickstarter, then fuck off.

Well, I'm pretty sure that Jack the Ripper Incorporated did not generate any profits. I'm also pretty sure that Jack the Ripper's victims did not consent to any ripping beforehand -- so that's not a very good metaphor.

You could however make some amusing and more appropriate analogies involving johns paying for various stripes of BDSM.

So, FatR, are we ever going to get that review of the latest Infernals book done Drunken Review/OSSR/AoFD style? Or at least the 1E Lunar book?

I own the latter book so I could theoretically do it myself, but, you know, the contents of that book is existentially soul-crushing. So could you do it instead? For old times' sake?

Plague of Hats wrote:

fectin wrote:Instead, they're asking for that price for a perfect bound, print-on-demand piece of crap, sight unseen, on the theory that maybe they'll print some different doodles on the cover?

None of the physical books you get by pledging to the Kickstarter are PoD.

Plague, you are frickin' omnipresent.

It's beginning to sound like "the best of 1E" was actually shite. Given my limited knowledge is of 2E, and I liked the Infernals (and Sidereals and Alchemicals). Ignoring the standard problems I have with Exalted as a whole - I think the general backstory of the world and the "you must purchase Excellencies, then take some cool abilities one at a time" are both terrible, but it'd be too much to expect splat books to change those.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:So, FatR, are we ever going to get that review of the latest Infernals book done Drunken Review/OSSR/AoFD style? Or at least the 1E Lunar book?

I own the latter book so I could theoretically do it myself, but, you know, the contents of that book is existentially soul-crushing. So could you do it instead? For old times' sake?

I want to see someone rip apart the 1e Lunars book. It was a perfect storm of fucked mechanics, fucked fluff and fucked player advice.

That sounds fantastic (for a review).

Can you add me as a voice requesting FatR do another amazing Exalted review? My friends and I laughed for days over his big thread. Seriously amazing stuff.

One of the signature characters is transgendered, which is certainly braver than WotC's position that they don't exist.

Prince Diamond:

Uh huh.

1) Nothing about that suggests transgendered. The clothing is pretty gender neutral and beyond big-ass boots and sword, it tells me exactly nothing. That could be a person of either gender dressed as either gender- there simply aren't enough culture cues to say one way or another.

2) WW has a habit of pushing 'extremes' (and casting them as extremes whether they are or not) and pushing the 'deviancy' for shock value angle. Again, whether they are or not. They treat anything that isn't vanilla as marketing schlock.


Case in point if anyone wants to do the 'best of 1e' review- Dragonblooded had the lovely section on the incestuous pedophilia orgy family.

Voss wrote:Case in point if anyone wants to do the 'best of 1e' review- Dragonblooded had the lovely section on the incestuous pedophilia orgy family.

I must have missed this; where was it?

theye1 wrote:One of the signature characters is transgendered, which is certainly braver than WotC's position that they don't exist.

White Wolf uses "mature" content as a marketing schtick to attract deviants to their games, news at eleven. And the worst thing about that is that their characters are usually drawn so ugly, that I can't fap to them even if they cater to my own deviant fetishes.

Voss wrote: Case in point if anyone wants to do the 'best of 1e' review- Dragonblooded had the lovely section on the incestuous pedophilia orgy family.

Continuing talking about deviancy, while some people are enraged by things like what you mentioned (or pictures of furry lolis) on principle, I'm not. Assuming they are used reasonably. And incestous pedophilia orgies are the sort of deviancy that we reasonably can expect from jaded nobility that lives above law in a society with no religious restrictions on sexual behavior to speak of (and even if there are, the same religion considers you automatically enlightened and above common mortals anyway). So mentioning something like this is a decent way to remind the players about problems with DBs' society.

In fact, I'm not even offended in the slighest by mentions of rape in 1E Lunars. Rape is about the least unpleasant thing one can expect from a barbarian invasion, really. What I'm offended in 1E Lunars is that the books not only presents it, and much worse things, as a norm, the players are supposed to at least implicitly accept, if they are to interact with the Lunars' society at all, but apparently does not consider the idea, that the values of said society might be, in fact, not very good.

And speaking about reviewing that book or the Infernals - maybe later, when I need my cup of rage, but currently I have a rather busy schedule.