So, it looks like I could take a bunch of bikes, drive into the middle of some dudes I hated, and deepstrike in terminators (no scatter because bikes). Throwing the standard of desolation on them would let me make 4x[$terminators] storm bolter attacks, which would all be twin linked. And then assault. That seems nasty enough to be worthwhile. Am I missing something?
Also, apparently the new rule is 1000 point armies. My 600 point plan is just gone.
Warhammer: how to not suck
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Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
Yes. That banner can only be taken by the Command Squad, the HQ choice. Ignoring the fact that it's a very expensive thing, and Terminator squads come in at 200 points each (five dudes, no upgrades), you still need to find a way to get that banner up there where it's close enough. Options involve:fectin wrote:Am I missing something?
[*]Even more points being spent on a dedicated transport - and you get to decide whether you want to spend huge amounts of points, or instead have the metal box get easily wrecked before delivering them.
[*]Terminator Banner Command - enjoy spending even more points!
[*]Biker Banner Command - see above!
Ultimately, that banner is better for guarding your own objectives, and doing so with 1-2 squads of regular dudes and maybe a LRC (for the 24 twin-linked shots and optional extras). If you do Biker+Terminator, you want to consider making one of those two scoring (via ___wing), and have the Terminators focus on getting into assault ASAP. I recommend Hammers and Shields for this.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
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Judging__Eagle
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Knowing the actual minis you've got available could also help.
Personally, I'm more partial to plunking down swarums of marines; because most people don't expect 50-60 marines in a 1,000-1,500 pt game.
However, I also like pie-plates, because I acknowledge that indirect fire will ruin most people's plans at trying to avoid being shot by staying in/behind cover.
A lot of people like expensive elite units like termies; but they're each twice as expensive as a normal marine, and tend to be both hard to position. While also attracting a lot of attention.
Ultimately, thinking of this game as an RPG, where your "dice pools" are equivalent to the number of guys physically on the table also helps.
If you have 40 units, that's up to 40 shots they can fire, or 80 if they rapid fire.
Try to find things that will work with an overall strategy, and then make it redundant.
Not one bike squad, but two, or use your squad only for a single specific task (deepstriking some Termies at an advantageous position, like a flank or a soft/hard target you've identified to take out early on that will make the rest of your troops suffer if they continue to exist; heavy weapons sections, dreadnoughts, pie-plate throwers). Not actually into and among the middle of the enemy where everything can dogpile on them and wipe them out.
Alternately, even some scouts can be used further afield to take objectives that your advancing/drop podded marines can hold. I've seen SM players lock down enemies with multiple Scout squads (back when snipers could make squads make Ld tests, and get all panicky); then use the HB to gun them down. While the real troops came up to support the scouts, and hold objectives.
It's not good to have one heavy weapon squad with four weapons, if you can instead have eight heavy weapons among the army; and you have the discipline to have them all fire in one round at a single target.
I've had games where 4 Hvy weapons alone couldn't actually destroy an immolator, but after 2 rounds of fire it wasn't going to do much harm due to all its weapons being broken, and it being immobilized. If I had twice the weapons, it would have only taken 1 round to accomplish; and the immolator wouldn't have had a second round to continue moving forward.
Overall, having more individual models gives you better average results. While having less total models means that it doesn't take a lot of bad luck to ruin your plans.
Focusing on what the actual map objectives are sounds basic, but is easy to lose sight of.
Going back to what I said about fielding lots of basic troops; you may want to calculate the tactical value of everything you pick out against what it would cost in normal marines; and deciding if losing some marines is worth the tactical options these new units will give you.
Supposedly 1,000 pts gives at most 50 marines; if they're still ~20 pts each. Going to 45 for 5 of them to be terminators isn't shabby, shaving off an other 5 to go down to 40 with 5 bikes, and 5 termies that you can now deep strike accurately isn't bad either. Most likely you'll be able to field about 30 marines, with a commander, 5 bikes, and 5 termies included; and 20 marines are still killable with even basic Imperial Guardsmen.
Remember, that less troops means that your opponent doesn't have to focus as much fire to make you lose more of your total forces. It's a very delicate balancing act.
Personally, I'm more partial to plunking down swarums of marines; because most people don't expect 50-60 marines in a 1,000-1,500 pt game.
However, I also like pie-plates, because I acknowledge that indirect fire will ruin most people's plans at trying to avoid being shot by staying in/behind cover.
A lot of people like expensive elite units like termies; but they're each twice as expensive as a normal marine, and tend to be both hard to position. While also attracting a lot of attention.
Ultimately, thinking of this game as an RPG, where your "dice pools" are equivalent to the number of guys physically on the table also helps.
If you have 40 units, that's up to 40 shots they can fire, or 80 if they rapid fire.
Try to find things that will work with an overall strategy, and then make it redundant.
Not one bike squad, but two, or use your squad only for a single specific task (deepstriking some Termies at an advantageous position, like a flank or a soft/hard target you've identified to take out early on that will make the rest of your troops suffer if they continue to exist; heavy weapons sections, dreadnoughts, pie-plate throwers). Not actually into and among the middle of the enemy where everything can dogpile on them and wipe them out.
Alternately, even some scouts can be used further afield to take objectives that your advancing/drop podded marines can hold. I've seen SM players lock down enemies with multiple Scout squads (back when snipers could make squads make Ld tests, and get all panicky); then use the HB to gun them down. While the real troops came up to support the scouts, and hold objectives.
It's not good to have one heavy weapon squad with four weapons, if you can instead have eight heavy weapons among the army; and you have the discipline to have them all fire in one round at a single target.
I've had games where 4 Hvy weapons alone couldn't actually destroy an immolator, but after 2 rounds of fire it wasn't going to do much harm due to all its weapons being broken, and it being immobilized. If I had twice the weapons, it would have only taken 1 round to accomplish; and the immolator wouldn't have had a second round to continue moving forward.
Overall, having more individual models gives you better average results. While having less total models means that it doesn't take a lot of bad luck to ruin your plans.
Focusing on what the actual map objectives are sounds basic, but is easy to lose sight of.
Going back to what I said about fielding lots of basic troops; you may want to calculate the tactical value of everything you pick out against what it would cost in normal marines; and deciding if losing some marines is worth the tactical options these new units will give you.
Supposedly 1,000 pts gives at most 50 marines; if they're still ~20 pts each. Going to 45 for 5 of them to be terminators isn't shabby, shaving off an other 5 to go down to 40 with 5 bikes, and 5 termies that you can now deep strike accurately isn't bad either. Most likely you'll be able to field about 30 marines, with a commander, 5 bikes, and 5 termies included; and 20 marines are still killable with even basic Imperial Guardsmen.
Remember, that less troops means that your opponent doesn't have to focus as much fire to make you lose more of your total forces. It's a very delicate balancing act.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
I can speak for Dark Angels, but for Red, Blue or Bearded Marines they're 16 points each, with a 10-point surcharge for having a Sergeant (not optional). So what you obviously do is take a squad of ten (170 points), and you can split that into two Combat Squads if you like. Five of those nets you fifty dudes (including five Sergeants, five Flamers and five Heavy Bolters, Multi-Meltas or Missile Launchers). It costs 850 points, which leaves "not much" for anything else.Judging__Eagle wrote:Supposedly 1,000 pts gives at most 50 marines; if they're still ~20 pts each.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Deathwing assault would give me a guaranteed drop on turn one (or on turn two). Bikes all have homers, so there would be no scatter, just get a bike into position. Failing that, a squad that Belial leads doesn't scatter anyway. So two squads drop clustered together, worst case within [scatter] of where I actually want. one of them is a troop, the other is a command squad with the banner. They immediately deathblossom.Koumei wrote:Yes. That banner can only be taken by the Command Squad, the HQ choice. Ignoring the fact that it's a very expensive thing, and Terminator squads come in at 200 points each (five dudes, no upgrades), you still need to find a way to get that banner up there where it's close enough. Options involve:fectin wrote:Am I missing something?
[*]Even more points being spent on a dedicated transport - and you get to decide whether you want to spend huge amounts of points, or instead have the metal box get easily wrecked before delivering them.
[*]Terminator Banner Command - enjoy spending even more points!
[*]Biker Banner Command - see above!
Ultimately, that banner is better for guarding your own objectives, and doing so with 1-2 squads of regular dudes and maybe a LRC (for the 24 twin-linked shots and optional extras). If you do Biker+Terminator, you want to consider making one of those two scoring (via ___wing), and have the Terminators focus on getting into assault ASAP. I recommend Hammers and Shields for this.
...at least, that's the theory.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
Maybe that's what I should be asking: how can I actually test my crazy theories?
@JE: I don't have that much, so I'm planning to buy more either way. I have the Assault on Black Reach set, which is a bunch of orcs and a squad of 10 marines, 5 terminators, a captain, a dreadnought (multimelta/claw, no options). I also have a veterans squad, a heavy weapons team (I think? Away from home right now), five bikes, a sidecar, a company master (DA-specific captain) two chaos bikes I plan to convert, a scout company (not snipers, just regular), and some bits. Many of them are either not complete or not glued, so can still be modded. I have basically no vehicles (just that dreadnought).
A lot of your advice seems much more focused on space marines than on dark angels. I remember last edition, they were basically the same (which is largely why I ignored the game part and stuck to painting), but 6E seems to have some fairly big differences (though they're subtle). Shouldn't I be trying to play to DA-unique strengths, instead of trying to play as off-brand space marines? (that's actually a question; I don't know which is correct)
@JE: I don't have that much, so I'm planning to buy more either way. I have the Assault on Black Reach set, which is a bunch of orcs and a squad of 10 marines, 5 terminators, a captain, a dreadnought (multimelta/claw, no options). I also have a veterans squad, a heavy weapons team (I think? Away from home right now), five bikes, a sidecar, a company master (DA-specific captain) two chaos bikes I plan to convert, a scout company (not snipers, just regular), and some bits. Many of them are either not complete or not glued, so can still be modded. I have basically no vehicles (just that dreadnought).
A lot of your advice seems much more focused on space marines than on dark angels. I remember last edition, they were basically the same (which is largely why I ignored the game part and stuck to painting), but 6E seems to have some fairly big differences (though they're subtle). Shouldn't I be trying to play to DA-unique strengths, instead of trying to play as off-brand space marines? (that's actually a question; I don't know which is correct)
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
Yes, you should be playing to the DA strengths. The trick is picking which strength to play to. Tactical gunline or terminators is probably best. Ravenwing can work, but you need to get into the black knights, or otherwise boost the standard bike squads.
If the wording itself isn't clear*, there is the FAQ:
Q: The Standard of Devastation states that ‘all friendly Codex: Dark Angels units within 6” of the standard treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons’. Which boltguns does this apply to? (p66) A: This applies to the standard boltgun (24” range, S4, AP5, Rapid Fire), twin-linked boltguns on bikes, the bolter component of combi-weapons, and hurricane bolters.
*it often isn't. GW unfortunately uses specific and generic terms in a weird way. In this case they're using boltgun for the specific weapon and not the class of weaponry.
Not that the banner does help standard Ravenwing bikes (but not the Black Knight bikes)
The Deathwing Company Banner is probably the best bet for the DW command squad.
Yes. That banner doesn't work with stormbolters. Only standard boltguns.fectin wrote:So, it looks like I could take a bunch of bikes, drive into the middle of some dudes I hated, and deepstrike in terminators (no scatter because bikes). Throwing the standard of desolation on them would let me make 4x[$terminators] storm bolter attacks, which would all be twin linked. And then assault. That seems nasty enough to be worthwhile. Am I missing something?
If the wording itself isn't clear*, there is the FAQ:
Q: The Standard of Devastation states that ‘all friendly Codex: Dark Angels units within 6” of the standard treat their boltguns as Salvo 2/4 weapons’. Which boltguns does this apply to? (p66) A: This applies to the standard boltgun (24” range, S4, AP5, Rapid Fire), twin-linked boltguns on bikes, the bolter component of combi-weapons, and hurricane bolters.
*it often isn't. GW unfortunately uses specific and generic terms in a weird way. In this case they're using boltgun for the specific weapon and not the class of weaponry.
Not that the banner does help standard Ravenwing bikes (but not the Black Knight bikes)
The Deathwing Company Banner is probably the best bet for the DW command squad.
Honestly, neither. Both weapons rather suck. Snipers at least have a use against monstrous creatures, but heavy bolters suck all around. They're cheap, but they really aren't very good at all. Other weapons do better at light troop removal, and they are completely inadequate for anything else.fectin wrote:What is best in life: snipers or heavy bolters?
Last edited by Voss on Wed May 29, 2013 3:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Dang. Yeah, that makes the terminator drop a lot less good.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
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rasmuswagner
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So, battlewagons.
I've got this toy that I'm converting, and it's going to be a non-open topped battlewagon with a single big turret. What do I do with that? I'm figuring a kill-kannon, then putting on a few big shooters as damage sinks for "weapon destroyed"; once you put on ordnance gun on the vehicle, there's zero reason not to move 6" every turn. I was thinking about putting some burna boyz or a big mek with a force field in there.
Any other ideas for this vehicle?
I've got this toy that I'm converting, and it's going to be a non-open topped battlewagon with a single big turret. What do I do with that? I'm figuring a kill-kannon, then putting on a few big shooters as damage sinks for "weapon destroyed"; once you put on ordnance gun on the vehicle, there's zero reason not to move 6" every turn. I was thinking about putting some burna boyz or a big mek with a force field in there.
Any other ideas for this vehicle?
Every time you play in a "low magic world" with D&D rules (or derivates), a unicorn steps on a kitten and an orphan drops his ice cream cone.
Why is plasma the new black?
I don't doubt it, but I don't see it either.
I don't doubt it, but I don't see it either.
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
$177 worth of shipping order mistake? Cool.
Flyers... depend heavily. Vendettas (IG) and Helldrakes (Chaos) are amazing.
Flying Bricks (Marines, Blood Angels, Grey Knights) can be okay if you have a specific plan for them (Blood Angels: delivering murderous close combat forces and dreadnought).
Necron Flyers are good, solid choices but not broken. Although having your whole force inside Croissants can really make life hard for the enemy. Valkyries are not very good.
And so on. Sadly, the Dark Angel flyers are pretty average. They don't suck, it's just that you'll need to sit down beforehand and decide what you'll be doing with them, dedicate a purpose to them and try to make that relevant.
As for plasma: no longer can you bypass a 2+ save with a power sword. With the exception of particular specialist things (usually specific characters), any close combat AP 2 weapon strikes at I 1. And that's sad. So if you want to bypass 2+ without being murdered first, you want to do it via shooting. Imperial forces have the following options:
[*]Lascannons: single shot and very expensive to field
[*]Ass Cannons: via rending, therefore unreliable
[*]Melta guns: short range, single shot, why aren't you popping tanks with these?
[*]Plasma: two shots (or one at 24") or a Blast of it. Yeah yeah Gets Hot.
[*]Some IG Ordinance weapons?
Basically, for the rate of fire and the price, you're getting more AP 2 shots into the enemy than the other options.
Flyers... depend heavily. Vendettas (IG) and Helldrakes (Chaos) are amazing.
Flying Bricks (Marines, Blood Angels, Grey Knights) can be okay if you have a specific plan for them (Blood Angels: delivering murderous close combat forces and dreadnought).
Necron Flyers are good, solid choices but not broken. Although having your whole force inside Croissants can really make life hard for the enemy. Valkyries are not very good.
And so on. Sadly, the Dark Angel flyers are pretty average. They don't suck, it's just that you'll need to sit down beforehand and decide what you'll be doing with them, dedicate a purpose to them and try to make that relevant.
As for plasma: no longer can you bypass a 2+ save with a power sword. With the exception of particular specialist things (usually specific characters), any close combat AP 2 weapon strikes at I 1. And that's sad. So if you want to bypass 2+ without being murdered first, you want to do it via shooting. Imperial forces have the following options:
[*]Lascannons: single shot and very expensive to field
[*]Ass Cannons: via rending, therefore unreliable
[*]Melta guns: short range, single shot, why aren't you popping tanks with these?
[*]Plasma: two shots (or one at 24") or a Blast of it. Yeah yeah Gets Hot.
[*]Some IG Ordinance weapons?
Basically, for the rate of fire and the price, you're getting more AP 2 shots into the enemy than the other options.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
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Judging__Eagle
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@Koumei, hehehehe, 16 pt meringues is hilarious. A 20% cost reduction is fucking ludicrous, and as much as I do advocate "lots of units"; probably stopping around 3 combat squads; and then getting one or two things that really fuck with the enemy (whirlywindicanes!!!!!) would probably be a good idea.
So, that's 20-ish marines (1 troop choice, 1 elite choice, 1 heavy support); 5 termies (1 elite choice), 1 dread (elite? or heavy support?), 2 HQ choices; 7 bikes (1? assault choice); ~5 scouts (1 troop choice?).
So, that's a pretty well rounded force as it is.
Also, holy shit, nice on those 3 flyers.
They'd probably replace whilrwinds strategically (i.e. as units that "attack" an enemies plans.
The question would be on whether to model them as
Ravenwing Dark Talon
BS Front Armour Side Armour Rear Armour
Ravenwing Dark Talon 4 11 11 11
Number: 1
Type: Vehicle (Flyer)
Wargear: Two Hurricane Bolters, Rift cannon, Stasis bomb
Special Rules: Hover Strike
or....
Nephilim Jetfighter
BS Front Armour Side Armour Rear Armour
Nephilim Jetfighter 4 11 11 11
Number: 1
Type: Vehicle (Flyer)
Wargear: Twin-linked heavy bolter, Twin-linked lascannon, Six blacksword missiles
Special Rules: Strafing Run, Unrelenting Hunter
The Ravenwing looks more shooty vs infantry; and it's more of a gunship (i.e. stands in the air, and keeps pouring fire into the target).
While the Nephilim looks more like a fighter-bomber; with it's complement of missiles; and las-cannon.
Ideally... you'd build them so that the weapons can be pinned/magnet-held to the chassis; and you'd switch up the model as you need it tactically for your armies.
The Ravenwing could very well be anti-armour (I have no idea how stasis bomb, or rift-cannons work); and the Nephilim has enough missiles in it to last most games.
Overall.. the tactics that I could see working best would something along the lines of as follows:
Bikes and Planes are positioned last; with a way through the terrain to get towards something you want/need to eliminate on the enemies flank. These will help deploy the termies into the flank of the enemy, as you've outlined above.
Remember, these high damage assault units are worthless if thrown into the front of the enemy; flank your enemies forces (or ideally, your enemies psychology, morale, and plans; play against your opponent, not their units alone) or be prepared to lose.
You're trying to have the most of your forces, engage the least of his; and ideally in such a way that moving their forces to deal with your flanking attack, makes their forces easier pickings for the rest of your forces.
Usually, you'd want your Scouts forward on the opposite flank, if you're trying to take multiple objectives.
However, you may also position the scouts on the same flank to keep you opponent from thinking he can jump your bikes somehow before you can use them properly. The scouts you could throw into such units as a 1-round or so tarpit (don't be afraid sacrifice the scouts into an assault to get your bikes, jet(s) and termies positioned better).
The scouts could be the initial movement in some instances; where they get in the way of units that would face/break your bikes, and make them lose a round moving in the wrong direction (even here, place the scouts to a side of where the enemy would travel; they're a tiny force, and are better used as a seemingly 'easy' target, that will split your opponents attention from your real danger of your flanking bikes, termies, and maybe a jet or more.
If trying to take objectives; the scouts may be better positioned at/near an objective, to provide cover fire as the regular marines and vets advance towards the scouts to support them, and pile-on to units that could most likely just shove the scouts off of an objective with sheer press of numbers.
The dreadnought is better used supporting the regular marines and vets; b/c it won't keep up with the bikes (unless you drop pod it).
While the heavy weapon team is probably best somewhere where it can keep shooting at targets (watch your lines of sight) that the flanking forces will be getting into; and other forces that your marines, vets, scouts and dread might have to deal with.
Now, 4 missile launchers sounds terrible; and it usually is. However, it's not the end of the world; and if you fire them all at a squad or vehicle that your jet is also shooting at, you'll have more chances of making them useless.
Focus fire is also important. Having two or more of your units attack one of your enemy units is the only way you're going to guarantee that you'll be constantly making positive net victory points every round.
As an aside, to get a better understanding of how to approach wargames in general. If you can get your hands on the Samuel Griffith translation of Sonshi's The Art of War; I highly recommend it. It's the only real reason why I was able to play and actually have a chance of not completely losing when playing against actual 40k vets like Koumei at all when we played a couple of times on Vassal a few years ago.
The book is widely applicable to things beyond the wargame table, and its 130~ pages of actual instruction are deceptively simple. I've read it about a dozen times since getting my copy in the 90's, and barely consider myself to understand the very few lines of instructions on those pages; and even then have found it to be incredibly useful.
Ok, so that's 10 marines, 5 termies captain, 1 large, 5 vets?, 5 Hvy Wpn team, 5-7 bikes, company master, scouts (when you say... 'company', do you mean like, you have a company's worth of scouts? or an individual squad of ~5 scouts?10 marines
5 terminators
a captain
a dreadnought (multimelta/claw, no options)
I also have a veterans squad
a heavy weapons team (I think? Away from home right now),
five bikes, a sidecar,
a company master (DA-specific captain)
two chaos bikes I plan to convert,
a scout company (not snipers, just regular),
some bits.
So, that's 20-ish marines (1 troop choice, 1 elite choice, 1 heavy support); 5 termies (1 elite choice), 1 dread (elite? or heavy support?), 2 HQ choices; 7 bikes (1? assault choice); ~5 scouts (1 troop choice?).
So, that's a pretty well rounded force as it is.
Also, holy shit, nice on those 3 flyers.
They'd probably replace whilrwinds strategically (i.e. as units that "attack" an enemies plans.
The question would be on whether to model them as
Ravenwing Dark Talon
BS Front Armour Side Armour Rear Armour
Ravenwing Dark Talon 4 11 11 11
Number: 1
Type: Vehicle (Flyer)
Wargear: Two Hurricane Bolters, Rift cannon, Stasis bomb
Special Rules: Hover Strike
or....
Nephilim Jetfighter
BS Front Armour Side Armour Rear Armour
Nephilim Jetfighter 4 11 11 11
Number: 1
Type: Vehicle (Flyer)
Wargear: Twin-linked heavy bolter, Twin-linked lascannon, Six blacksword missiles
Special Rules: Strafing Run, Unrelenting Hunter
The Ravenwing looks more shooty vs infantry; and it's more of a gunship (i.e. stands in the air, and keeps pouring fire into the target).
While the Nephilim looks more like a fighter-bomber; with it's complement of missiles; and las-cannon.
Ideally... you'd build them so that the weapons can be pinned/magnet-held to the chassis; and you'd switch up the model as you need it tactically for your armies.
The Ravenwing could very well be anti-armour (I have no idea how stasis bomb, or rift-cannons work); and the Nephilim has enough missiles in it to last most games.
Overall.. the tactics that I could see working best would something along the lines of as follows:
Bikes and Planes are positioned last; with a way through the terrain to get towards something you want/need to eliminate on the enemies flank. These will help deploy the termies into the flank of the enemy, as you've outlined above.
Remember, these high damage assault units are worthless if thrown into the front of the enemy; flank your enemies forces (or ideally, your enemies psychology, morale, and plans; play against your opponent, not their units alone) or be prepared to lose.
You're trying to have the most of your forces, engage the least of his; and ideally in such a way that moving their forces to deal with your flanking attack, makes their forces easier pickings for the rest of your forces.
Usually, you'd want your Scouts forward on the opposite flank, if you're trying to take multiple objectives.
However, you may also position the scouts on the same flank to keep you opponent from thinking he can jump your bikes somehow before you can use them properly. The scouts you could throw into such units as a 1-round or so tarpit (don't be afraid sacrifice the scouts into an assault to get your bikes, jet(s) and termies positioned better).
The scouts could be the initial movement in some instances; where they get in the way of units that would face/break your bikes, and make them lose a round moving in the wrong direction (even here, place the scouts to a side of where the enemy would travel; they're a tiny force, and are better used as a seemingly 'easy' target, that will split your opponents attention from your real danger of your flanking bikes, termies, and maybe a jet or more.
If trying to take objectives; the scouts may be better positioned at/near an objective, to provide cover fire as the regular marines and vets advance towards the scouts to support them, and pile-on to units that could most likely just shove the scouts off of an objective with sheer press of numbers.
The dreadnought is better used supporting the regular marines and vets; b/c it won't keep up with the bikes (unless you drop pod it).
While the heavy weapon team is probably best somewhere where it can keep shooting at targets (watch your lines of sight) that the flanking forces will be getting into; and other forces that your marines, vets, scouts and dread might have to deal with.
Now, 4 missile launchers sounds terrible; and it usually is. However, it's not the end of the world; and if you fire them all at a squad or vehicle that your jet is also shooting at, you'll have more chances of making them useless.
Focus fire is also important. Having two or more of your units attack one of your enemy units is the only way you're going to guarantee that you'll be constantly making positive net victory points every round.
As an aside, to get a better understanding of how to approach wargames in general. If you can get your hands on the Samuel Griffith translation of Sonshi's The Art of War; I highly recommend it. It's the only real reason why I was able to play and actually have a chance of not completely losing when playing against actual 40k vets like Koumei at all when we played a couple of times on Vassal a few years ago.
The book is widely applicable to things beyond the wargame table, and its 130~ pages of actual instruction are deceptively simple. I've read it about a dozen times since getting my copy in the 90's, and barely consider myself to understand the very few lines of instructions on those pages; and even then have found it to be incredibly useful.
Last edited by Judging__Eagle on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.