Japanese vs Western "weirdness" in games

[Atmo]

Age of Consent in Japan:

NSFW Links

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2013/06/1 ... ng-jc-10m/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2012/12/0 ... o-station/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2012/06/2 ... t-station/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2009/04/2 ... irections/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2011/06/1 ... mcdonalds/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2012/01/1 ... girl-cute/
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2011/10/1 ... e-showing/

could have fooled me . .

Whilst previous incidents have included such gems as men being reported to police for walking in the street or asking for directions, online there is some suspicion about the motives of a man who approaches random schoolgirls in order to comment on how adorable they are:

“Don’t bother with 3D.”

Can't... stop... laughing...

[Dogbert]

Good to know things are changing there.

My (native) Japanese teacher had some really crapsack stories about her homeland back when I took those classes.

[Atmo]

Good to know things are changing there.

My (native) Japanese teacher had some really crapsack stories about her homeland back when I took those classes.

Did you really think japanese men are sadistic rapers who follow and kidnap schoolgirls just for fun? Crazy...

[Lago PARANOIA]

Did you really think japanese men are sadistic rapers who follow and kidnap schoolgirls just for fun? Crazy...

Well, American men are sadistic rapers who slut-shame and shove probes up schoolgirls just for fun in the name of Jesus, so, I don't exactly see what makes them so special.

[Atmo]

Did you really think japanese men are sadistic rapers who follow and kidnap schoolgirls just for fun? Crazy...

Well, American men are sadistic rapers who slut-shame and shove probes up schoolgirls just for fun in the name of Jesus, so, I don't exactly see what makes them so special.

They read and write in moonrunes, that's something very special.

[Meikle641]

So much negative generalizing here.

[Dogbert]

Did you really think japanese men are sadistic rapers who follow and kidnap schoolgirls just for fun? Crazy...

I never said that thankyouverymuch.

I have it on good authorithy, however, that up until 15 years ago, sexual violence was a part of bullying as regular in schools as physical violence and bullies used to drive victims to suicide (but then trends changed and victims started murdering the bullies).

Also, at least up until 15 years ago, prostitution was as common among teenage girls wanting expensive clothes as summer jobs are in the US. As a funny side note, it wasn't uncommon hearing of unfaithful husbands who went to brothels and the randomly assigned girl they ended up with turned out to be their daughter.

And then there are the specialized maid cafes where patrons are explicitly allowed to molest the waitresses, hoping that they relieve their libido there and stop molesting their underlings at work.

And then there's (or was? Please someone correct me if it's no longer) the legal age thing. So yeah, things were pretty fucked up there.

[Stahlseele]

The bullying is still there, more suicides again.
The Teenage Prostitution is still there too.
The Maid-Caffees have changed to not allow the mollesting anymore i think.
I thought the legal Age had changed. Not sure though.

[Drolyt]

The national age of consent in Japan is 13 last I checked, but it is higher in every prefecture. Criticizing Japan for that is like criticizing the US for having no age of consent laws because they are all at the state level. Not to say underage prostitution isn't a problem, because it is.

[Atmo]

Did you really think japanese men are sadistic rapers who follow and kidnap schoolgirls just for fun? Crazy...

I never said that thankyouverymuch.

Just a joke to break the ice.

Also, at least up until 15 years ago, prostitution was as common among teenage girls wanting expensive clothes as summer jobs are in the US. As a funny side note, it wasn't uncommon hearing of unfaithful husbands who went to brothels and the randomly assigned girl they ended up with turned out to be their daughter.

Here is quite common on regions from "country towns" to teenage girls sell their bodies to truck drivers, men who can pay and who knows more just to have something to eat or to buy nice clothes.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Even though I'm guilty of this hypocrisy as anyone else, can we take the cultural stuff to another thread? I want to discuss Japanese TTRPGs.

[Almaz]

I have it on good authorithy, however, that up until 15 years ago, sexual violence was a part of bullying as regular in schools as physical violence and bullies used to drive victims to suicide (but then trends changed and victims started murdering the bullies).

I have it on good authority that up until 0 years ago, sexual violence was a part of bullying as regular in schools as physical violence, and bullies used to drive victims to suicide. In the United States.

Also, at least up until 15 years ago, prostitution was as common among teenage girls wanting expensive clothes as summer jobs are in the US. As a funny side note, it wasn't uncommon hearing of unfaithful husbands who went to brothels and the randomly assigned girl they ended up with turned out to be their daughter.

I laugh at obvious morality stories being taken as fact.

And then there are the specialized maid cafes where patrons are explicitly allowed to molest the waitresses, hoping that they relieve their libido there and stop molesting their underlings at work.

Not really "explicitly allowed." Sure, sometimes waitresses are discouraged from reporting harassment the same way women are discouraged from reporting it in the United States. Sure, sometimes a business is a sham cover for a brothel. But that doesn't mean that you can always get away with slapping the waitress on the ass, nor does it mean she's going to look kindly on your propositioning her. Just that sometimes it happens anyways, just like it happens in the United States.

You're reporting a pithy bracket of urban legends, usually based off of heavily exaggerated news lines, as fact. I appreciate that they came from your teacher who lived in Japan, but you should consider that thse stories played the telephone game before even reaching your teacher.

In conclusion: the United States is every bit as fucked up about sexuality as Japan, possibly even moreso. Stop treating the Land of the Rising Sun as the Land of the Raping Sarariman, or at least don't treat it as something special. This kind of sexual assault and sexual trafficking happens where you live too, and in greater numbers. We just sweep it under the rug, and focus on everyone else's perversion, just like Japan does with respect to the USA!

[Atmo]

Even though I'm guilty of this hypocrisy as anyone else, can we take the cultural stuff to another thread? I want to discuss Japanese TTRPGs.

So let's discuss! I've found this: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities ... 0724285675

[Almaz]

Even though I'm guilty of this hypocrisy as anyone else, can we take the cultural stuff to another thread? I want to discuss Japanese TTRPGs.

Sorry, I had already opened up the reply box and started ranting by the time you posted!

In any case, one of the really interesting things (to me) about RPGs in Japan is the marketing of play sessions as a valid product, with some touch-ups. Sure, we have Dragonlance, but the idea of selling and continuing to sell play sessions alone is just amazing to me.

[Atmo]

Even though I'm guilty of this hypocrisy as anyone else, can we take the cultural stuff to another thread? I want to discuss Japanese TTRPGs.

Sorry, I had already opened up the reply box and started ranting by the time you posted!

In any case, one of the really interesting things (to me) about RPGs in Japan is the marketing of play sessions as a valid product, with some touch-ups. Sure, we have Dragonlance, but the idea of selling and continuing to sell play sessions alone is just amazing to me.

And they add beautifuly made art! Even those sessions sent by players can become oficial in the setting, like that fanmade novel of Night Wizard that gained an anime! One of the voice actress made her charater from scratch! (damn, i always get wet when i talk about it)

[Lago PARANOIA]

Didn't someone post someone's Pathfinder play sessions?

I liked the cut of that one drow's gib.

[Drolyt]

Even though I'm guilty of this hypocrisy as anyone else, can we take the cultural stuff to another thread? I want to discuss Japanese TTRPGs.

How is this discussion off topic? The OP was about how cultural differences affect roleplaying games, so hammering out those differences is completely relevant.

In conclusion: the United States is every bit as fucked up about sexuality as Japan, possibly even moreso.

Bullshit. Look, I don't think anyone wants to a create a "my country is better than yours" pissing contest or claim that the US is perfect, but Japan has serious problems with sexuality. We are talking about a country that had to build special trains just for women because in Japan the majority of women in their 20s and 30s report being groped often and yet prosecution is rare. If you think that could actually happen in the US on a similar scale you are determined to see flaws in the US whether they exist or not, which is a shame because there are plenty of reasons to be mad at the US that aren't bullshit.

[Almaz]

(nonsense from Drolyt)

I was going to respond to this, but I remembered Lago's request and also that arguing international sexism with people who both have fully functional testicles and also have not actually extensively studied the countries in question is relatively pointless.

Yeah, Actual Plays are definitely a thing in the United States (see RPG.net's forum for them) but they aren't marketed. Usually a game session is viewed as an obligatory example session we must trudge through for a demonstration of the game's mechanics, as opposed to a method of presenting a story. Maybe they should be? Sure, I wouldn't sell them for much, but esp. if there was value-added stuff (artwork, maybe story-specific items) you might have a legit market. I wonder what a cheap adventure versus a cheap replay would return on sales...

[OgreBattle]

After learning so much about the Japanese here, I'd love to hear what the tgdmb has to share about the psychology of jews and blacks.

[Lago PARANOIA]

Yeah, Actual Plays are definitely a thing in the United States (see RPG.net's forum for them) but they aren't marketed. Usually a game session is viewed as an obligatory example session we must trudge through for a demonstration of the game's mechanics, as opposed to a method of presenting a story. Maybe they should be? Sure, I wouldn't sell them for much, but esp. if there was value-added stuff (artwork, maybe story-specific items) you might have a legit market. I wonder what a cheap adventure versus a cheap replay would return on sales...

Well, before this project can even be seriously broached I wonder what peoples' tolerances are for (to use professional wrestling terminology) shoots versus works versus worked shoots in other countries' markets.

If people only accept shoots and worked shoots that lean heavily on the latter then you'll almost certainly have to crowdsource it and run contests where people get paid for the best adventures pending player votes. Unfortunately, there's a limit to how much you can clean these up. You can and could take out things like bathroom breaks or people choking on pretzels, but you can't really spice up the dialogue or pacing or whatever without ruining the authenticity.

If people will accept works as well then you can have some gorgeous, gussied-up adventures which are more like reading a novel than looking at a play session. Which means a higher literary value of course but might result in losing the interest of the public at large.

[nockermensch]

After learning so much about the Japanese here, I'd love to hear what the tgdmb has to share about the psychology of jews and blacks.

gr8 b8 m8

[Almaz]

Yeah, Actual Plays are definitely a thing in the United States (see RPG.net's forum for them) but they aren't marketed. Usually a game session is viewed as an obligatory example session we must trudge through for a demonstration of the game's mechanics, as opposed to a method of presenting a story. Maybe they should be? Sure, I wouldn't sell them for much, but esp. if there was value-added stuff (artwork, maybe story-specific items) you might have a legit market. I wonder what a cheap adventure versus a cheap replay would return on sales...

Well, before this project can even be seriously broached I wonder what peoples' tolerances are for (to use professional wrestling terminology) shoots versus works versus worked shoots in other countries' markets.

If people only accept shoots and worked shoots that lean heavily on the latter then you'll almost certainly have to crowdsource it and run contests where people get paid for the best adventures pending player votes. Unfortunately, there's a limit to how much you can clean these up. You can and could take out things like bathroom breaks or people choking on pretzels, but you can't really spice up the dialogue or pacing or whatever without ruining the authenticity.

If people will accept works as well then you can have some gorgeous, gussied-up adventures which are more like reading a novel than looking at a play session. Which means a higher literary value of course but might result in losing the interest of the public at large.

Based on the enthusiastic adoption of the "contest" reality TV show, and the reality TV show genre in general (I have an unfortunate amount of exposure to it due to roommates) I believe that people will accept Works and Shoots. I think the largest market would be for Worked Shoots - a veneer of authentic "chaos" but also plenty of production values. People are willing to accept a good amount of working, but if they pause and go "no, that's TOO fake" it's over. Conversely a lot of people don't enjoy a 100% shoot - if it's too, erm, rustic, it gets unappealing to look at. I think punk music provides a good example - people kept listening to them after they "sold out" even if they complained about it, because the quality genuinely went up, until they started fucking sucking after they were relying too much on post-production.

[Whipstitch]

Bullshit.

Strong language, but the numbers I've seen on the subject vary wildly, never have citations and sure as hell don't say anything about methodology. For comparison, there was an NYC survey that spat out a ~60% harassed, ~10% assaulted number in Manhattan, but as it turned out the methodology was absolute dog shit, so forgive me for not always trusting surveys sight unseen. The most compelling bits I've heard is the women only cars--although, other countries have them as well, actually--and the eyebrow raising number of arrests. I'd hardly call that a slam dunk in the United States' favor, however, given that our own sexual assault statistics are still woeful and the grim possibility that Japan's problems only look worse in part because they bothered to crack down on it and thus are reporting a higher percentage of crimes than we are while also featuring a much more extensive mass transit system.

TLDR version; the US keeps pace in the Rape Olympics well enough that I'm not yet willing to throw stones based on what internet miscreants have told me.

[Drolyt]

(nonsense from Drolyt)

I was going to respond to this, but I remembered Lago's request

This isn't a response? Oh, then it must be an attempt to weasel out because you don't have any actual arguments. Good to know.

and also that arguing international sexism with people who both have fully functional testicles and also have not actually extensively studied the countries in question is relatively pointless.

Wow. Not only are you assuming I'm a dude (admittedly I am but that isn't actually relevant) but that I haven't studied the countries in question (I have actually, we happen to be discussing the two countries I know the most about). For future reference, baseless accusations do not count as an argument.

After learning so much about the Japanese here, I'd love to hear what the tgdmb has to share about the psychology of jews and blacks.

The odds are you are just a troll, but just in case I think I should clear this up. Pointing out problems with a culture has nothing to do with race. That doesn't even make sense, consider if you said the same thing about the US, what race would you even be criticizing? It is just coincidence that Japan is ethnically homogeneous.

TLDR version; the US keeps pace in the Rape Olympics well enough that I'm not yet willing to throw stones based on what internet miscreants have told me.

Oh, I highly doubt sexual violence is higher in Japan than in the US. The discussion was about how sex and sexuality is perceived in Japanese culture, and particularly a response to this:

sexual repression is actually worse in Japan than in the US.

Which is true and goes a long way towards explaining the otaku culture that resulted in Maid the RPG being an actual marketable product.

[Whatever]

Also, it's totally ok to stereotype a culture.

No it fucking isn't.

What the actual fuck, Drolyt.