Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:01 am
Absolutely nothing that happens with Jon Snow's sex life is superfluous, considering it's all directly relevant to what he has to give up to take the black.
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I'm not a prude, and me and my overactive imagination take offence at the very notion. I love naked ladies, and all the related errata. Never had one before, but I love 'em nonetheless. My problem is when stories have lots of sex and violence just to make them... edgy.Schwarzkopf wrote:Nothing in GoT is unnecessary except the goddamn food descriptions. Everything else serves a necessary thematic and/or literary purpose.Shrapnel wrote:Unnecessarily graphic and detailed scenes of sex and violence are really dumb and, well, unnecessary. In my opinion, they detract from the story, no matter how well they're written; they just turn the story into The Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 93: Exploding Boobs in Your Vagina.
And you sound like a puritan/prude. Then again, I love blood and titties (but not in combination), lesbian stripper ninjas for the win.
Damn straight. Robert Heinlein was a gigantic pervert, and his characters got into some pretty freaky shit...but he didn't write very many explicit sex scenes (I can't think of any, offhand).Shrapnel wrote: I don't need an explicit account of some dude banging his wife; just say they did it and leave the rest up to the imagination - the perverted mind is so much better at coming up with sexytime fantasies than anything that can be put onto paper.
Yeah, that's pretty much my view on the whole subject.PoliteNewb wrote:...but if you really want that kind of thing, they do make something called porn
Sex. Sex is what he has to give up to take the black. So when he has sex for contrived reasons in situations where alternative solutions are hyperabundant, it's not only irrelevant, it's actually directly contradictory to his character.Schwarzkopf wrote:Absolutely nothing that happens with Jon Snow's sex life is superfluous, considering it's all directly relevant to what he has to give up to take the black.
I think the diversion is that some people are talking about the books, and some people are talking about the show.icyshadowlord wrote:We're seriously trying to argue about how fanservice is actually a plot point when it isn't?
Two posts up:icyshadowlord wrote:Nobody argued whether it made sense or not.
Chamomile wrote:Sex. Sex is what he has to give up to take the black. So when he has sex for contrived reasons in situations where alternative solutions are hyperabundant, it's not only irrelevant, it's actually directly contradictory to his character.Schwarzkopf wrote:Absolutely nothing that happens with Jon Snow's sex life is superfluous, considering it's all directly relevant to what he has to give up to take the black.
Yeah, and like talking, talking is not in any way ever a plot point unless people die during it.icyshadowlord wrote:Now if the food had been poisoned and the character dies because of it, THAT would make the food a plot point.
Am I the only one who was actually pleased with the Red Wedding?Stahlseele wrote:did somebody say red wedding?
http://teamcoco.com/video/conan-highlig ... -reactions
*snickers*
Do you narratively? I was upset at first, but it is just fine as far as I am concerned.TheFlatline wrote:Am I the only one who was actually pleased with the Red Wedding?Stahlseele wrote:did somebody say red wedding?
http://teamcoco.com/video/conan-highlig ... -reactions
*snickers*
Yeah, it was kind of shocking, but man... Robb was getting on my nerves. His mom too.
im not sure about the edginess but pathfinder kingmaker module is a clear rip off of game of thrones from succession struggle to coral the conqueror and his three dragons and every noble house having family words. not to mention many of Brevoys noble houses are rip offs of game of thrones familiesOgreBattle wrote:So Game of Thrones is the most torrented show in the world and a best selling novel series, and it features swords and bits of magic and dragons and lots of rape and sex and mutilation, incest and castration, and at least one guy turning into a dog to get fucked by an alpha wolf. And it's really popular and everyone has heard of it.
Has it influenced tabletop gaming though? Have any companies taken note and released products with an 'edginess' like Game of Thrones, not shying from barbarians raping everything or have druids get banged by their animal companions?
JamesJacobs wrote:Brevoy is very much inspired by George R. R. Martin's stories. Which is why we got Steve Kenson to write the Brevoy article—he also worked on Green Ronin's RPG version of Martin's stories. Of course, Brevoy is a LOT more magic than Westeros!
JamesJacobs wrote:"Russian Westeros" is in fact a pretty concise way to summarize Brevoy.
There's something positive to be said about evil undead mass-murder Cait.Kaelik wrote: But I don't know about his mother, is mute Cait really any better than talking Cait?
I haven't read the books or watched much of the show, but seriously? How many of these actually have to do with explicit details about the sex going on? Most of these plot points would be equally well served by fade-to-black or other narrative hand-waves, and then get on with the consequences of the act, but he writes the intricacies for the sheer indulgence of the sex scene. Nothing about the intricacies of the sex scene go on to matter, just the fact that sex was had. In that case, it's a sex scene for sex's sake. Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that, but to claim that "all sex scenes contain important plot points because sex has these consequences, therefore all the sex details are necessary" is untrue, because those details don't matter in the majority of cases. Characters can have sex without an explicit sex scene, y'know, and we can arrive to the majority of these plot points without them. The extra sex scenes are authorial indulgences, not critical plot points in and of themselves.Kaelik wrote:Yeah, and like talking, talking is not in any way ever a plot point unless people die during it.icyshadowlord wrote:Now if the food had been poisoned and the character dies because of it, THAT would make the food a plot point.
Do you not get that sex is a social interaction, and so sex can have social ramifications with other humans that are relevant to the plot?
I mean, here is a short list of things that happen because of sex in ASOIAF:
0) An entire fucking war is really started about who gets to fuck Lyanna Stark.
1) Bastards are born that set the entire fucking thing in motion.
2) A Kid gets pushed off a tower and breaks his fucking spine.
3) The Wildlings tentatively accept that Jon Snow has forsaken the Black.
4) Danni gets pregnant and miscarries and can never have kids again.
5) Tyrion. Everything about Tyrion. Tyrion and ?Tyra? Tyrion and Shae. Even and especially the part where she has sex with Tywin, because otherwise he might not even be dead.
6) Walder Frey feels slighted, thus Red Wedding.
And that's not even getting into the other fucking shit that happens because people want to have sex with other people, that is just the direct consequences of the social interaction part of sex.
Stubbazubba wrote:I haven't read the books or watched much of the show, but seriously?
Some of them would be, but some of them wouldn't. For example, Tyrion and Shae. The plot point and consequences mean a lot less if you don't establish their relationship. No one complains when you use talking to establish a relationship so people can understand later plot points, but since the relationship is that she is his whore all the talking is done either right before, during, or right after sex. Even if you made all the during talk into before or after, it makes more sense to have the scenes where he says "and then we had sex on the floor. 30 minutes later blah" than to cut to black like a fucking prude only to cut in 30 minutes later.Stubbazubba wrote:Most of these plot points would be equally well served by fade-to-black or other narrative hand-waves, and then get on with the consequences of the act,
Stubbazubba wrote:but he writes the intricacies for the sheer indulgence of the sex scene.
You are a fucking idiot.Stubbazubba wrote:I haven't read the books . . . but he writes the intricacies for the sheer indulgence of the sex scene.
And he has a point. All the fighting is equaly pointless. We could take all of the fight scenes and fade to black, just having people talk about the consequences.I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it's madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure. Axes entering skulls, well, not so much.
And usually we do.sabs wrote:To quote George himself:And he has a point. All the fighting is equaly pointless. We could take all of the fight scenes and fade to black, just having people talk about the consequences.I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it's madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure. Axes entering skulls, well, not so much.