Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:05 am
Mike Mearls wrote:Hey D&D peeps, think we could replace most of the DMG with this presentation? http://imgur.com/gallery/Cvrey
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http://www.tgdmb.com/phpBB3/
Mike Mearls wrote:Hey D&D peeps, think we could replace most of the DMG with this presentation? http://imgur.com/gallery/Cvrey
This is an excellent example of the kind of game I'd eject myself from.ishy wrote:Mike Mearls wrote:Hey D&D peeps, think we could replace most of the DMG with this presentation? http://imgur.com/gallery/Cvrey
This is something you run into over and over with 5e. You'll see a description of what's supposed to happen, but then you don't see any real mechanics to get there. Some of the descriptions of how the outputs are supposed to look are pretty reasonable, and some are stupid, but in any case there needed to be some kind of procedures to generate the described outputs from the game's inputs and those just aren't there.Grek wrote:and honestly, I don't disagree. My main gripe here is how non-integrated this part of the game is with the PHB. It would be great if a Ranger had an ability to get a list of monster lairs in the region so that they could be sought out/avoided as appropriate, or for Fighters to be able to plop a stronghold down on the map.
I'm curious, what design goals are these? Aside from bounded accuracy, I don't actually remember Mearls and co listing any design goals than a vague injunction to "feel" like D&D.FrankTrollman wrote: I don't disagree with all of the design goals presented
Let's go back to the Hiding example because I've already picked it apart. Consider this bit:CapnTthePirateG wrote:I'm curious, what design goals are these? Aside from bounded accuracy, I don't actually remember Mearls and co listing any design goals than a vague injunction to "feel" like D&D.FrankTrollman wrote: I don't disagree with all of the design goals presented
That's completely reasonable as a set of objectives. If people are watching you, the default is that you cannot hide (you'd need a distraction or a special ability). If you're hidden, you can still have your position given away if you make a noise. That's a completely reasonable set of goals for what the hiding rules should output when used. But... that's it. Those aren't rules, because determining whether people see you or not is extremely important to situations where I might want to hide and it's not fucking discussed. There are no rules for when my character makes involuntary noises, and what effects having your position given away might have are likewise undefined.PHB 5e wrote:You can't hide from a creature that can see you, and if you make noise (such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase), you give away your position.
I have the core books and Hoard of the Dragon Queen. I wanted to learn it and run it, but what is there to learn? Dungeons and Dragons designers bragged about how the game was in an alpha state for a year and a half and had thousands of players providing feedback and where is the fruit of all that labor? Stuff as crucial as stealth and skills and magic item creation and how to build and modify and add levels and equipment to monsters, it really isn't there. Its just a big fat friggin' nothingburger. I dropped something like 100 dollars on this and it doesn't even seem half-baked in a lot of ways.FrankTrollman wrote:
5e isn't a set of rules. It's a set of design goals for someone to use when writing an edition of Dungeons & Dragons. I don't disagree with all of the design goals presented, but I'm legitimately offended that they released it when it was still this underdesigned. And the fact that they explicitly never intend to patch it to functionality is simply insulting.
-Username17
Fair enough. But even for things with actual rules (combat), it's hard to see what the hell output the designers were intending. Mearls is on record as stating one of the big problems of 4e was hp bloat...and the CR 5 air elemental has 90 hp. (For reference, a fighter and barbarian at level 20 have about 70-80 damage per round per http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsing ... ostcount=4) If I'm understanding you correctly, you're pointing out that there are actions they want to support but there are no rules for them.FrankTrollman wrote: That statement in the PHB is not a rule. It's a description of what the rule is supposed to do once someone gets around to writing it. But no one ever did.
I decided to do some additional research. In case you thought maybe the whole bounded accuracy thing would also apply to DPS and low level PCs are churning 60-70 per round, you'd be wrong. Level 1 damage kings are doing 7-9dpr, level 6 is doing 23-30, etc. A roper is CR 5 in 5E, and has 14 more HP than 3E's roper (who's CR 12); and CR 1 monsters are in the mid-20s on HP. This latest edition is HP bloat all around.CapnTthePirateG wrote:Fair enough. But even for things with actual rules (combat), it's hard to see what the hell output the designers were intending. Mearls is on record as stating one of the big problems of 4e was hp bloat...and the CR 5 air elemental has 90 hp. (For reference, a fighter and barbarian at level 20 have about 70-80 damage per round per http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsing ... ostcount=4)
Google suggests that 1d8 + 1d12 for encounter tables was a TSR thing that was doubtlessly reintroduced into 5E to give grognards stiffies.FrankTrollman wrote:The d8+d12 roll gives an equal 1/12 chance of rolling five different numbers. It's possible that someone's mind was blown by that difference from rolling 2d10 that they started scribbling it all over everything. I'm guessing it's more likely that someone decided that they should pimp polyhedral dice more and decided to come up with arbitrary shit they could call for d4s, d8s, and d12s for.
-Username17
Basically this.Blicero wrote:Google suggests that 1d8 + 1d12 for encounter tables was a TSR thing that was doubtlessly reintroduced into 5E to give grognards stiffies.
Can't even play out the fight?10) Beaten and robbed. Lose all your personal effects and reduced to half hit points.
Complete ass.11) Gambling binge. Lose all your gold, gems, jewelry. Roll Wisdom check for each magic item in your possession. Failure indicates it’s gone.
Also completely dumb.15) Invest all your spare cash (50% chance all gems and jewelry, too) in some smooth-tongued merchant’s scheme. 1-4 it’s bogus 5 it’s bogus and Johnny Law thinks you’re in on it 6 actual money making opportunity returns d% profits in 3d4 months.
Do i even need to say it?17) Major misunderstanding with local authorities. Imprisoned until fines and bribes totaling d6 x 1,000gp paid. All weapons, armor, and magic items confiscated.
Holy crap! This must be the inspiration for the carousing rules my MC came up with for LotFP. He expanded on it a lot but it definitely shares some DNA.Blicero wrote:How does the carousing table compare to this one?
http://jrients.blogspot.com/2008/12/par ... s-999.html
That's fucked up.Grek wrote:When blown, 2d4+2 elven berserkers appear and sever the owner for one hour.