The Gaming Den

I've seen both, and like both.

So Darcy and I have started into Steven Univese, and while it may be because we are straight and white, or it may be because the show follows the Adventure Time formula of 11-minute episodes that establish mythology via slow accretion and we haven't got to the equivalent of the Ice King's backstory episode -- we have found the show seriously underwhelming so far.

Yeah, the diversity is there and two of the cast turn in superb voice acting performances....but that's just not enough to carry the show. It's great to tell stories about non-traditional gender roles, characters of different body types, characters of various races and even characters with mental illness --- but you still have to make those compelling stories. And that last bit is where at least the first dozen episodes of Steven Universe fail pretty hard. And honestly, as the title character is still a chubby white male, that undercuts any potential message about diversity.

Steven is clearly a special needs child, and Darcy and I keep arguing over just which developmental disability he has. ( My most recent hypothesis is Willam's Syndrome ) Whatever it actually is, the character acts more like a 4 year old than the tween he is supposed to be.

Despite his special needs,he's inexplicably being raised by a trio of alien superheroines who possess zero parenting skills between them -- despite his father being local and amicable. While dad Universe is far from an ideal father, it's hard to imagine how or why dad doesn't have primary custody of the boy. The show's conceit is that Steven is with the alien trio so they can teach Steven how to use his half-alien powers -- but aside from the first episode where each of the gems gives Steven unhelpful advice on how to summon his weapon, no training happens in the show. There is no danger room, no exercises, no lessons, no meditations, no relating of relevant experiences to the pupil. Instead the gems basically alternate between telling Steven "stay out, don't touch" and totally ignoring him when things inevitably go wrong because either because he couldn't stay put or keep his hands off or because his half-alien powers manifested in ways that cause problems for him. But Steven remains ever optimistic and generally figures a way out.

When the show isn't about negligent parenting by aliens who shouldn't have custody in the first place leading to a crisis, it's about the Crystal Gems going on "adventures". Said adventures tend to be a lot more Lara Croft than Wonder Woman. There's a lot of digging up relics in ancient temples and running through trap-filled corridors an occasional giant monster and like zero supervillains or doomsday devices. Steven generally tags along on these missions, and the older Crystal Gems have to protect him using their actual powers and weapons and consternation at Steven's fragility, until he can use his optimism and lateral thinking to figure out the actual solution to the dungeon or artifact. This is a better formula for entertainment than the half of episodes repeatedly redundantly re-retelling Pandora's Box again, but it runs into the problem that most of the puzzles that Steven ends up solving are caused and solved by "magic"for which the audience has only the knowledge previously established within the episode -- and 11 minute episodes do not allow for much exposition time -- thus the audience doesn't get the satisfaction of trying to solve the puzzle along with the characters and the resolution frequently comes off as beyond even deus-ex-machina and over into complete asspull territory.

Honestly, I never read Steven as a preteen. I see him as more around eight, give it take a year. But beyond that, he's a comedy protagonist, which also makes age dodgy.

How far in are you? It picks up a bit near Jail Break.

How is it compared to Adventure Time? Because I tried watching Adventure Time and discovered I literally can't stand that show...

Well, the art style doesn't make me want to punch something...

That said, what I've otherwise seen of AT (which is very little), makes its stories sound better, though I think Finn and Jake are more annoying than Steven and the gems, for my tastes.

SU has part of MLPFIM's problem, though, where it vacillates between slice of life and adventure. The more recent episodes have been leaning more towards adventure/its consequences, but there are still episodes like "Steven and his dad road trip to a nearby town for car wash brushes, Garnet tags along because she's still pissed at Pearl for using her and didn't want to look at her. Ruby and Sapphire break their fusion and slowly work out their upset at Pearl while handling it very differently because of different personalities, with Steven mediating and Greg mostly off screen."

I am liking the Peridot arc, though. It's basically "what if Zim was competent but unsure of himself, sent to Earth with a small team, and then completely separated from them and left with no ship?"

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:How is it compared to Adventure Time? Because I tried watching Adventure Time and discovered I literally can't stand that show...

Adventure Time is fucking garbage. I had decided that much before it got more popular than Jesus after randomly catching 3 episodes. I was later convinced that if I gave it time I would come to like it. So I ended up getting stuck watching a marathon of it 2 Thanksgivings ago and save for a few episodes (the genderswapped ones and the one that reveals the Ice King's past) I only grew to hate it more. All the main characters piss me off. I do not know what the fuck people who aren't 10 see in that show.

MGuy wrote:Adventure Time is fucking garbage. I had decided that much before it got more popular than Jesus after randomly catching 3 episodes. I was later convinced that if I gave it time I would come to like it. So I ended up getting stuck watching a marathon of it 2 Thanksgivings ago and save for a few episodes (the genderswapped ones and the one that reveals the Ice King's past) I only grew to hate it more. All the main characters piss me off. I do not know what the fuck people who aren't 10 see in that show.

What exactly do you not like about the characters? I thought they were at least tolerable.

MGuy wrote:

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:How is it compared to Adventure Time? Because I tried watching Adventure Time and discovered I literally can't stand that show...

Adventure Time is fucking garbage. I had decided that much before it got more popular than Jesus after randomly catching 3 episodes. I was later convinced that if I gave it time I would come to like it. So I ended up getting stuck watching a marathon of it 2 Thanksgivings ago and save for a few episodes (the genderswapped ones and the one that reveals the Ice King's past) I only grew to hate it more. All the main characters piss me off. I do not know what the fuck people who aren't 10 see in that show.

I think mostly it's not what over-10s see in that show, and more what they're smoking during the show

AcidBlades wrote:

MGuy wrote:Adventure Time is fucking garbage. I had decided that much before it got more popular than Jesus after randomly catching 3 episodes. I was later convinced that if I gave it time I would come to like it. So I ended up getting stuck watching a marathon of it 2 Thanksgivings ago and save for a few episodes (the genderswapped ones and the one that reveals the Ice King's past) I only grew to hate it more. All the main characters piss me off. I do not know what the fuck people who aren't 10 see in that show.

What exactly do you not like about the characters? I thought they were at least tolerable.

I don't like anything about them. That's the thing. At their 'best' they are tolerable but far too often hey slip into annoying or worse with nothing redeeming about them. Sometimes it's 'how' they talk that grates my nerves. Sometimes it's the words they use and for some (like the lumpy princess) it can just be how they sound. The 'humor' is terrible. A lot of the time simply nothing happens in the show and I 'guess' I'm supposed to be entertained by general wackiness...

There was an episode that they found this dickhead of a wizard finds them and transforms them into a body part... thing. They mess around with that for some time, figure out they can't do shit about it, and the dickhead comes back and they get turned back to normal. The boy tries to find a moral lesson behind their transformation because they'd literally tried to help the guy before he fucked with them. Turns out the fucker did it for no reason. So the show basically told me that it just wasted my time. Nothing went on in the episode that was of any interest and the writers made sure to indicate that there was no hidden message to boot.

That shit doesn't fly with me. I can do wacky shows. There are episodes of Spongebob and Chowder I found entertaining. This show can't do that for me. The BEST episodes they have take a step AWAY from the humor that's supposed to be the main draw (I'd assume) of the show. I mean, I'm almost sad about it because it shows that they COULD have made it better. I believe I heard somewhere that the two guys who do Rick and Morty wrote for AT so, if that's true, then that only confirms my suspicions.

Actually it sounds like that episode had a very important lesson for kids- "some people are just dicks"

Prak wrote:Actually it sounds like that episode had a very important lesson for kids- "some people are just dicks"

Yeah, that's what the wizard said. That really could've been done in 5 minutes. Watching them fuck around for a bit, meet other victims, and ultimately not DO anything is not entertaining.

MGuy wrote:I believe I heard somewhere that the two guys who do Rick and Morty wrote for AT so, if that's true, then that only confirms my suspicions.

What suspicions?

Anyways the two guys you are probably referring to are Justin Roiland and Dan Harmon. Dan has nothing to do with AT and Justin is only credited as the voice actor for The Earl of Lemongrab, Lemonhope and Lemongrab subjects. No producing, writing or directing on AT. He has said he considers Pendleton Ward a big influence though I believe that was in regards to animation style.

I've only seen the first episode of AT. Didn't grab me.

Shady314 wrote:

MGuy wrote:I believe I heard somewhere that the two guys who do Rick and Morty wrote for AT so, if that's true, then that only confirms my suspicions.

What suspicions?

Anyways the two guys you are probably referring to are Justin Roiland and Dan Harmon. Dan has nothing to do with AT and Justin is only credited as the voice actor for The Earl of Lemongrab, Lemonhope and Lemongrab subjects. No producing, writing or directing on AT. He has said he considers Pendleton Ward a big influence though I believe that was in regards to animation style.

I've only seen the first episode of AT. Didn't grab me.

My suspicion that the series 'could' have been better if other people on the team had been doing more of the writing.