Complete Adventurer: Patching multiclassing...

[User3]

Well, Fighters have always been up actions. The whole " I take a feat and get the effects of not having to cast Keen on my weapon(Improved Crit.)" or "I take a feat and get an extra attack on a full attack and don't have to cast Haste for that extra attack (Two-Weapon Fighting)."

Sure, it was a shitty paradigm, but if you picked your feats just right you could be as buffed as a spellcaster who'd had like 4 rounds of prep. Since combats lasted like 5 rounds, you were cool, and the spellcasters avoided self-buffing.

Then the caster hit 7th level and you cried since he's got death magic and Polymorph and you are holding your sword like a big useless metal wang.

PS. Frank, the last time I checked, Divine Metamagic only worked on Divine spells(check the first line).

PPS, I proposed a similiar idea
a while ago.

[Username17]

PS. Frank, the last time I checked, Divine Metamagic only worked on Divine spells(check the first line).

Are you refering to the first line of the flavor text? The first line of the actual rules section is:

When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat.

Or maybe you were refering to what it actually says that it does:

As a free action, you can take the energy from turning or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamgaic feat to spells that you know.

Now the interesting thing here is that it specifies "spells that you know", not "spells you cast" or even "spells on your list". Because honestly, Clerics don't actually have "spells known" at all. So you can make a pretty good rules argument that Clerics can't use Divine Metamagic - but there is no good argument that Wizards can't.

-Username17

[Oberoni]

I think he's referring to the errata.

[Username17]

You mean the one where it apparently doesn't work at all?

I can't recall any class that has Divine Spells Known and Turning Attempts. Maybe a Favored Soul Contemplative with the Animal Domain? At 18th level, you'd have access to Shapechange, so you could turn into a Hullathoin and get Rebuking.

When errata like that comes out, it's generally best to ignore it.

-Username17

[Oberoni]

I disagree.

NEW DIVINE SPELLS
Divine spellcasters most frequently gain new spells in one of the following two ways.
Spells Gained at a New Level: Characters who can cast divine spells undertake a certain amount of study between adventures. Each time such a character receives a new level of divine spells, he or she learns new spells from that level automatically.
Independent Research: A divine spellcaster also can research a spell independently, much as an arcane spellcaster can. Only the creator of such a spell can prepare and cast it, unless he decides to share it with others.

If a character "learns new spells from that level automatically," that would mean that they know all spells from that level.

[SuicideChump]

The Master of Many Forms PrC can be exploited with a Deepwarden. Given the ability of the Deepwarden to add his Con score to AC, he can take advantage of the MoMF 7th level ability to Wildshape into a Plant and become a Shambling Mound.
Add to the mix the crappy Kingdoms of Kalamar's Child of Earth feat (Con score to ST).

Then stick a lightning rod up his axe and see him live forever with infinite hp, infinite AC and infinite saves.
Or at least until someone blast him through a properly meta-enhanced Energy Drain, but you know, you cannot have everything.
A Soulfire armor should fix the problem.

See here for details:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.p ... [br][br]It is hardly the best optimized build, but it is nice nonetheless.

[MrWaeseL]

Con to all saving throws doesn't seem like a crappy feat to me.

[SuicideChump]

it is crappy for its blatant brokeness, not for its effectiveness. This feat stinks. It should be a class ability IMHO.
It's like saying "Oh, well, from now on we have 'Divine Grace' as a feat". It seems that in Kingdoms of Kalamar the game developers have thrown the balance down the shitpool. A little like D&D, after all.

[RandomCasualty]

1108583237[/unixtime]]it is crappy for its blatant brokeness, not for its effectiveness. This feat stinks. It should be a class ability IMHO.
It's like saying "Oh, well, from now on we have 'Divine Grace' as a feat". It seems that in Kingdoms of Kalamar the game developers have thrown the balance down the shitpool. A little like D&D, after all.

I don't really see why feats should be any worse than class abilities. For a fighter, a feat is a class ability.

Still, I generally don't like the idea of handing out alternate stats towards something, since it's an openended bonuses you can't possibly control. Then again, I really don't like ability scores in general.

[Username17]

Indeed, if you are willing to concede that Paladin 2 is balanced in 3.5 - granting as it does both Divine Grace and Lay On Hands, then you've got to accept that getting Divine Grace as a feat is underpowered. At least, assuming for the moment that Fighter 2 isn't simply the epitome of suck.

After all, Fighter 2 grants a feat, 2 skill points, +1 Fort Save, +1 BAB, and a d10 hit points. Paladin 2 grants Divine Grace, Lay On Hands, 2 skill points, +1 Fort Save, +1 BAB, and a d10 hit points. If a feat is "only" giving you Divine Grace, then Fighter 2 is shorting you by Lay On Hands and a worthwhile skill list.

This all underlines some basic D&D truths:

1> Fighters suck.
2> The current system of saves doesn't work.
3> The power level of a Feat is all over the map and there is no rubric for even determining what it "should" be.

-Username17