The Gaming Den

Grek, if you've read the essay that establishes that the Woses are mistaken for goblins, then presumably you've also read the parts that establish that they have stature similar to dwarves and also don't grow hair below their eyebrows. They are not big. They are not hairy.

FWIW, I searched Wose and found a picture from the MERPS review on this very forum.


I have pictures that I like better from my MERPS book, but in a spirit of laziness it was easier to repost this image than upload the ones from my physical copy.

Is there anything in D&D 3.X that would allow you to make someone else suffer the ability damage that you would normally take from casting a Corrupt Spell? I'm thinking along the lines of a BBEG that can make his underlings take his damage, but Shield Other specifically says it only transfers hp damage, not ability damage.

Ok, so was reading LotR again, and towards the beginning Gandalf mentions (in passing) that Sauron has werewolves working for him. Apparently LotR werewolves are evil, which seemed odd in that Beorn (and his kin) is basically a werebear and a good person. And it struck me that in AD&D (at least 1st ed), werewolves are evil and werebears aren't.

Is that just another stupid "because Tolkien" thing, or were they (and possibly he) drawing on older sources of evil werewolves but good werebears I'm unfamiliar with?

(Was planning to ask this for a while but the forum went down)

Tolkien was drawing on Germanic myth for that distinction, in which wolves are generally evil and the typical werewolf story is about a serial killer, while bears are generally good and the typical werebear story is about an overly-loyal warrior. You see it in Grimm's tales as well, where a wolf is usually the villain and a bear is pretty often a transformed prince.

Thaluikhain wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:13 pm

Ok, so was reading LotR again, and towards the beginning Gandalf mentions (in passing) that Sauron has werewolves working for him. Apparently LotR werewolves are evil, which seemed odd in that Beorn (and his kin) is basically a werebear and a good person. And it struck me that in AD&D (at least 1st ed), werewolves are evil and werebears aren't.

Is that just another stupid "because Tolkien" thing, or were they (and possibly he) drawing on older sources of evil werewolves but good werebears I'm unfamiliar with?

In The Simiriallion, the tale of Beren and Luthien gives a bit more detail. Symbolically, it seems that Sauron got werewolve henchmen to symbolize animalistic savagery in contrast to Huan the Hound's civilized loyalty.

Ah, I didn't know that, thanks.

@Angelfromanotherpin
Yeah, because cunning and Teamwork is such a bad guy stereotype while being sedentary and prone to berserker rages is such a good guy trope to have . .

Stahlseele wrote: ↑

Fri May 07, 2021 6:35 pm

@Angelfromanotherpin
Yeah, because cunning and Teamwork is such a bad guy stereotype while being sedentary and prone to berserker rages is such a good guy trope to have . .

Well, if the wolves are eating your sheep, working together isn't going to earn them any points.

Disney's Robinhood had wolves/vultures/rhinos as the bad guys, and a bear and a fox as the good guys (but also outlaws). By the time something shows up in a Disney movie, you can be sure it's part of the zeitgeist.

Hello all,

I have questions about After Sundown :

1) Do the Feeding Scheduled creatures need regular input of Power Points to survive, if they do not use them ?
2) It is noted that Strigoi (at least) must consume blood regularly to survive. Is that a Power Point need, do they consume PP and if so, on which schedule ?
3) Do the RItual Power schedule recharge all the PP of a character, or is it 1 PP per 2 hours ?
4) Anybody got an alternate XP system for this game ?

If anybody is playing or has experience with it, I'd like to exchange contact information because I'll probably have more questions ^^ .

Be well and stay healthy everyone !

1 and 2) as written initially there is not game mechanical effect requiring any create to eat, just like how in D&D (3.5 at least) no rule says anything happens to you if you don't sleep. So you have to mind chalk it.

I have written in my general rules a daily Sustenance and Aging classification for each monster type including the solely NPC types like shamblers, and even I didn't actually write what happens if you fail to actually obtain your Sustenance. Though I did write basically that if you have have Unliving (modified Patience of the Mountains) you don't need to eat, breathe, sleep, or age, but you have to spend 1 Power Point per week on the power. So a Vampire not feeding could spend one pp a week and maintain themselves for some time, but would then have to Feed to regain power points. So that is I guess at least my general answer as to how often vampires need to feed.

3) Going from memory but I believe all.

1. No.
2. It's not a Power Point need. I'd compare it to other characters' need for ordinary food.
3. I read it as a full charge from a two-hour ritual.
4. It converts to point-buy pretty easily. A Background costs 1, a Skill, Specialization, or Quality costs 2, an Attribute or Power costs 8. Then just hand the points out at whatever rate makes you happiest.

allanlerouge wrote: ↑

Thu May 13, 2021 12:31 pm

2) It is noted that Strigoi (at least) must consume blood regularly to survive. Is that a Power Point need, do they consume PP and if so, on which schedule ?

During a very early draft of After Sundown, vampires required 1 PP per day to survive, but this was removed during later editing passes, around the time that the VtM IP stuff was stripped.

Hello again,

I thank you all for your answers !
I went along with angelfromanotherpin's suggestion of XP costs, and started on a 2 XP per session, but I'm wondering if a goal based gain wouldn't be better.

For the feeding, I think I'll put Patience of the Mountains at 1PP / week, automatically deducted. Each failed feeding week will bring a -1 Torpor malus to all skills and ability scores.Once any social or mental ability reach effective 0 the character will enter full Torpor (deactivated), but Torpor maluses continue to accumulate until all attributes reach effective 0, then it stops. 1PP is needed to alleviate one Torpor malus, new PPs given to a character in torpor may be used in whatever capacity the character wishes, but all mental and social abilities must reach at least 1 to leave this state.

(Edit : 1PP / day seemed a bit much, but it'd be interesting, the need to feed is a nice drive and 1/week doesn't make it important ... But it'd be a costly Patience :/ )

New questions !
1) Any idea of the range of temperatures an Animate or a Vampire can function in ?
They do not have inner warming for the most part (some androids maybe), do I'd say between 0-100 °C (avoid the extremes), but with no warming it means they cannot function if the temperature around them is too low. And I'm uncertain about Golems of clay, temperatures higher than 100°C could be sustained without problem ... After all ...
2) How would a Golem or Android of non flammable materials endure fire ? Do those gain some additional immunities by virtue of their build, or do the magic making them animate renders them sensitive to heat like any other character ?
3) Can an Animate repair missing limbs ? Without any Discipline, I mean.
4) Do characters need a teacher to learn new Universal Disciplines ?
5) Do characters need a teacher to learn new Powers in a Disciple they already have ?
6) What's the point of magical research ? Is that to gain Rituals ?

Be well, stay healthy !

Off the top of my head because fast answers are definitely better than good slow answers and I'm not just rationalising my impulsiveness:

1) Golems and vampires are magic, so I'd assume any temperature where they can buy hits at 4:1 to soak the incoming damage from ambient heat or cold. Username17 was keen on having abilities represented mechanically and not left to mind caulk where reasonably practical.
2) Any immunity their material gives them to fire should probably be represented by specific powers which come out of their discretionary discipline budget.
3) No more than any other monster.
4) No.
5) No. Generally needing to consciously learn is what makes Sorceries different from Universals.
6) I'd assume magical research is also how you learn Sorceries without a teacher or a spell book.

Note that golems come with walk of flame and therefore can survive chilling on the sun as a basic fact.

If vampires or androids are more resistant to heat than the average werewolf they should have the ability from their power budget.

Hello again !

I've a new question : does Veil globaly fail when someone is looking when it is activated, or does it fail only for the onlookers ?
Same thing when someone see through Veil, does it cancel it for himself or for everyone ?

(The "everyone" option would make Veil a good onlooker detector ...)

Thanks for your time, it helps me get things in order for my weekly AS game .

The way that I interpret Veil working is that you can activate your powers, and it causes anyone not watching to next time they see you see the new thing, but anyone currently watching keeps seeing what they were already seeing. For the purposes of cameras watching you, it's based on people looking at the display/recording, so if something is recorded it could be played over and over and someone might be paying attention to the right thing and pierce the veil one time, or it could just be broadcast to a wall of screens on a live feed and the security guard was looking at a different screen so now he can't see you anymore.

Thank you Kaelic ! Interesting the interaction Veil / Camera, however my game is set in 1920 so it's limited in scope ^^ (but I'll remember it).

I've new questions for you and others :

1) What is something "obvious" for Hide From Notice ? Walking an empty street, entering or moving into a room where only one person is, opening a door, approaching someone up front with a weapon (or not), ... ?

2) Still for Hide From Notice, does it works in a crowded place where people could bump into you just because others bumped into them, or does that break the Veil ? I'd say it breaks, there is interaction - albeit unvoluntary - but maybe it has been discussed differently before ?

Nice days to you folks !

1) I think punching someone would be obvious to them. Also maybe to some onlookers. I don't think opening a door would be, or entering a room. I think people would just ignore the door slightly opening and then closing. If you slammed the door open, that would be obvious.

2) I think it is again subject dependent. So you could do something that is obvious to some people but not others. I don't think being in a crowded place should in any way prevent Hiding from Notice, in fact it probably expands what you can get away with. The way I see Hide from Notice working is like the Gray Men from Wheel of Time, you do "see" the person, but your brain just decides it's not important enough to respond to in any way. So if someone is in the way, you just walk around them. If the Hidden character makes that impossible, maybe you bump into them and that breaks the Hide for you, but not others, or if the Hidden character is a Golem standing on the freeway, maybe it causes a crash when they swerve and that alerts a lot of people.

Hello all and Kaelik !

Ok, I think I get the idea. Now, how about some special cases ?

* Veil on someone transporting a conscious person. I'd say it's impossible.
* Veil on someone transporting an unconscious person. I'd say it's impossible.
* Veil on someone transporting a dead/ non animate person (so no zombie or Droid or anything, a total absence of entity). I'd say it's possible (it's just a "thing").
* Veil on someone transporting a conscious / unconscious / dead person in a closed object (a coffin, say). I've no clue ...

Tell me when I'm becoming annoying ^^ .

Take care all of you !

Whether something is alive or not doesn't actually matter to me unless it's actively trying to make itself noticed or manages to break contact with the Veiling creature. I'm totally fine with the bogeyman using his sleep powers and the Veil to kidnap naughty children.

Well, that's a bogeyman I want to have in the game, that's compelling ...

On the other hand, if an animate creature can be Veiled only if they're inside of an inanimate, Veiled object, that would explain why bogeyman require a bag to shove naughty children into.

Random question: How much of a game should be ready before it's shown off to the Den? I did a count the other day and noticed I've got a couple hundred pages written down, and I wound up doing a mock character sheet and got pretty excited at the thought of using it.