Was that far too harsh a sentence? Hell yes. But I agree with the principle that if he could have just went inside without anyone getting hurt he should have, because that is preferable to someone dying, even if that someone is a racist bastard. If he could not have done that then obviously we have a serious miscarriage of justice.talozin wrote:It is stupid not to try to get away when a racist white dude who has attacked you in the past comes onto your porch and says "I'm gonna stab you, n-----." You'll get no argument from me on that. But the kid got 18-20 years after he pled down to manslaughter. And that is not a reasonable sentence for defending yourself from a racist who attacks you on your own porch.
[Politics]The Right to Arm Bears in a Crowded Theater
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Indeed, I also believe that the current prison system is monstrous and there needs to be either a massive overhaul in conditions in US prisons, or a change away from using imprisonment as the default punishment for serious crimes.Drolyt wrote:In fact Grek's line of reasoning seems to suggest we shouldn't do that, if it isn't okay for people to kill in order to defend their lives how in the fuck is it okay to put people through living hell to punish them?
FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
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Stahlseele
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so how would you deal with them then?
forced organ donations?
make them be living crash test dummies and test subjects for untested medicine to further research into safety for others?
forced organ donations?
make them be living crash test dummies and test subjects for untested medicine to further research into safety for others?
Welcome, to IronHell.
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Peculiar properties of spacetime ensure that the perception of the magnitude of Soon is fluid and dependent, not on an individual's time-reference, but on spatial and cultural location. A marketer generally perceives Soon as a finite, known, yet unspeakable time-interval; to a fan, the interval appears greater, and may in fact approach the infinite, becoming Never. Once the interval has passed, however, a certain time-lensing effect seems to occur, and the time-interval becomes vanishingly small. We therefore see the strange result that the same fragment of spacetime may be observed, in quick succession, as Soon, Never, and All Too Quickly.
No, people who kill someone in self defense should go to 20 year education camp where it is drilled into them that the correct response in the case of someone killing them is to let themselves be killed.Stahlseele wrote:so how would you deal with them then?
forced organ donations?
make them be living crash test dummies and test subjects for untested medicine to further research into safety for others?
Unrestricted Diplomat 5314 wrote:Accept this truth, as the wisdom of the Crafted: when the oppressors and abusers have won, when the boot of the callous has already trampled you flat, you should always, always take your swing."
Well, the obvious answer is "less terrible prisons". But if making the prisons not be horrific rape-and-murder pits is not an option for some reason, there's still things you can do:Stahlseele wrote:so how would you deal with them then?
For non-violent crimes, fines, parole, public shaming and registration can work. I imagine that making convicted burglars go door to door with their parole officer and explain what they did wrong and why they're not going to do it again would be a reasonably effective punishment.
For violent crimes, if imprisonment isn't an option (due to a lack of humane prisons) and the criminal is not bad enough to merit execution, you're pretty boned. Exile is an option, I guess but you'd be hard pressed to find anywhere willing to take violent criminals.
The real answer is "build prisons that are not terrible", though.
FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.
That depends largely on the crime but:Stahlseele wrote:so how would you deal with them then?
forced organ donations?
make them be living crash test dummies and test subjects for untested medicine to further research into safety for others?
- For the most serious crimes prison is the only way to keep the community safe, but prisons should be made more humane. If someone is too dangerous to allow outside of prison they should at least be made relatively safe and comfortable. Most importantly there needs to be means for the prisoner to improve themselves, access to education, artistic expression, counseling, and the like.
Humane mental institutions should be there for those that clearly need them.
Drug crimes and the like should involve mandatory rehab.
Fines are great for nonviolent crimes. Especially financial crimes.
Community service is always a good option.
Basically reserve prison for only the most serious crimes and introduce more humane sentences and you will have more money to make the prisons humane.
What the fuck is wrong with you? If the point is to rehabilitate you need to allow people to reintegrate into society after they have served their sentence. You are trying to make this more difficult.Grek wrote:public shaming and registration
What are you, Finnish? This might be the ideal, but in the US prisons are little more than organized rape camps and very few countries are much better.zugschef wrote:But the point of prisons in a modern constitutional democracy is not punishment but resocialization.
Last edited by Drolyt on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So, when someone who doesn't use drugs is arrested for selling them they should go to rehab? Yeah, that's a great idea, put all the pushers in the same place as the people who want to avoid drugs.Drolyt wrote:Drug crimes and the like should involve mandatory rehab.
PS, we know what we would do, the question is what the psychotic Grek who thinks that people should be punished in some way for defending themselves when they had no other option instead of committing suicide.
Last edited by Kaelik on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Unrestricted Diplomat 5314 wrote:Accept this truth, as the wisdom of the Crafted: when the oppressors and abusers have won, when the boot of the callous has already trampled you flat, you should always, always take your swing."