enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

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Captain_Bleach
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Captain_Bleach »

Sma at [unixtime wrote:1190322838[/unixtime]]Hi !

I resent you all for forcing information down my throat!!! Now I have to use broken combo's all the time!!!!

Have a good day.

Sma


Nobody's forcing you. They aren't emailing their responses to your address, and there is nothing preventing you from not reading them.

I am more than happy with an RPG whose designers clearly address the power issues, and admit that they are there, as opposed to the designers that say "Everything is fine. Nothing is imbalanced." That is my main pet peeve with WotC.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Voss »

Ah, but they aren't doing that now. Now they're freely admitting that all sorts of things in 3.x suck total ass. :)
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Manxome »

Captain_Bleach at [unixtime wrote:1190323311[/unixtime]]
Sma at [unixtime wrote:1190322838[/unixtime]]Hi !

I resent you all for forcing information down my throat!!! Now I have to use broken combo's all the time!!!!

Have a good day.

Sma


Nobody's forcing you. They aren't emailing their responses to your address, and there is nothing preventing you from not reading them.


Natural 1 on your detect sarcasm roll?
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Prak »

and like some stupid embarrassing dream, I wake...

It finally dawned on me that the real reason I had this point of view is because of little to no point of reference... I don't play D&D as much as I'd like, and by that I mean I'm almost never able to get a game together and keep it going for any length of time... so, I don't know all these ins and outs that screw up the game, and when I have been told about them, I don't think about them because I've never seen them.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Crissa »

Prak, I've screwed up D&D games by wading in with:
A Cleric
A Monk
A Shaman (cleric-like class without turning)
Choosing an LA+1 race
Choosing an EL race.
Choosing a Paladin/Sorceror

...And in most of these cases, it was broken by my character sucking horribly. The cleric didn't suck, and in fact did everything for the group. And I never used any of these combos - there just was a disparity in actions so that the game just died.

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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by JonSetanta »

Voss at [unixtime wrote:1190323166[/unixtime]]I am stopping myself from playing a monk, PA + TWF or not.
I don't want to suck.


Yeah I made that mistake once. A DEX/WIS Monk at that, with Imp. Init.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Captain_Bleach »

Voss at [unixtime wrote:1190324401[/unixtime]]Ah, but they aren't doing that now. Now they're freely admitting that all sorts of things in 3.x suck total ass. :)

Not to mention a large amount of other RPG systems, including (but not limited to) Shadowrun, World of Darkness, FUDGE, GURPS, etc.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Voss »

Really? I haven't caught the Wizard's designers talking crap about other games yet.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by cthulhu »

The pits when that happens is the bickering that can develop because half your group are hard headed power gamer types and the other ones don't really care about the rulebook and just throw down 7 levels of spring attacking fighter.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Captain_Bleach »

Voss at [unixtime wrote:1190343742[/unixtime]]Really? I haven't caught the Wizard's designers talking crap about other games yet.

Oh, I thought that the original quote was talking about the message board members.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Voss »

Feh. Thats too easy and obvious. I was referring to the 4E design finally saying, 'Oh yeah, that... Its crap. Buy 4E! ... in 8 months.'
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Leress »

Voss at [unixtime wrote:1190350209[/unixtime]]Feh. Thats too easy and obvious. I was referring to the 4E design finally saying, 'Oh yeah, that... Its crap. Buy 4E! ... in 8 months.'


Just finished listening to the latest podcast...ugh. It was a Q and A but most of the question were already answered. They just now see that grapple is annoying...people have been saying that since 3.0.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Voss »

I refuse to listen to podcasts out of obscure principle. Any highlights?
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Leress »

Voss at [unixtime wrote:1190356256[/unixtime]]I refuse to listen to podcasts out of obscure principle. Any highlights?
They haven't work on encumbrance yet. They say casters are coming down in power and non casters up. Out of combat social skill are going to be more than a single roll. Nothing much was said that had any real substance to it. The number and what classes are unknown, same goes for the races.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Voss »

Nice. So much for the theories that they've 'confirmed' 8 classes and they will be x, y and z.

But I'm starting to get the feeling that they think printing is instantaneous. They need to get this shit locked down really damn quick.

A 4th playtest report is up too, and contains little actual info.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... br]Weirdly, converting his old campaign's characters over took a while, because
because this iteration of the rules is fiendishly complex (We’re paring it down as I write this, actually.)

I had the strange impression they were designing for simplicity. Wtf?
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Captain_Bleach »

Voss at [unixtime wrote:1190361150[/unixtime]]Nice. So much for the theories that they've 'confirmed' 8 classes and they will be x, y and z.

But I'm starting to get the feeling that they think printing is instantaneous. They need to get this shit locked down really damn quick.

A 4th playtest report is up too, and contains little actual info.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... br]Weirdly, converting his old campaign's characters over took a while, because
because this iteration of the rules is fiendishly complex (We’re paring it down as I write this, actually.)

I had the strange impression they were designing for simplicity. Wtf?


You need to sign in on their Insider subscription to see anything in that link.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Fwib »

Captain_Bleach wrote:

You need to sign in on their Insider subscription to see anything in that link.
Just create a login for the wizards boards and you can use that.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by the_taken »

Dude, at the bottom he states that he ignored flavour for crunch and it worked great, then says that it's a very bad thing to do. He stumbled appon something awesome and treated it like dirt.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Voss »

This isn’t a technique I recommend as a matter of course

Not quite treating it like dirt. The implication I get out it is that he feels most DM's are probably to stupid to do it well. (But I could be reading too much into it :))

Not sure why he thinks its a shocking innovation, however. Use a different description for a monster so it fits? Amazing! Unheard of!
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by JonSetanta »

Prak_Anima at [unixtime wrote:1190326077[/unixtime]]and like some stupid embarrassing dream, I wake...

It finally dawned on me that the real reason I had this point of view is because of little to no point of reference... I don't play D&D as much as I'd like, and by that I mean I'm almost never able to get a game together and keep it going for any length of time... so, I don't know all these ins and outs that screw up the game, and when I have been told about them, I don't think about them because I've never seen them.


Sorry for the late reply to this, but that's a good thing, Prak. As I expected you saw it on your own while debates didn't change your opinion.
At least that tug of war is over.
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Bigode »

Frank, with regards to the original version of Pun-Pun (which didn't rely on Pazuzu), what's the "helpful DM fiat" required?
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by JonSetanta »

Probably in allowing that Sarrhuk snake being that reshapes reptiles. The entire Pun-pun shtick depends on the existence of that race, like the linchpin to a godly Rube Goldberg contraption.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=491801
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by Username17 »

The Sarrhuk can grant a scalykind "an extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like ability". There are no qualifiers on that. Then it has a big block of text about "typical alterations" and gives out lists for stuff it can do. So really the Sarrhuk has the ability to grant a scalykind creature native to Toril any ability that the DM thinks is in line with the examples. And since the examples include things like "+4 bonus to spot checks" it would be a very hard sell to any DM to transfer the Manipulate Form ability, let alone any of that other crazy crap.

Pun-Pun's infinite attribute thing revolves around the specific numerical qualities of the power, which does in fact work. It's a very slow growing but nonetheless limitless version of Artificer Skill Dancing (but only for physical attributes). That's fine. Or it would be, if you could do that at all which you actually can't because in order to do so you'd have to be able to convince your DM that a Sarrhuk's form changing ability can grant the form changing ability - which is on the face of it ridiculous. There is a published set of guidelines in the power, and while they don't specifically prohibit such excesses as granting yourself the Alter Reality power of a major god - they certainly can't be read in any way that would make one think that this was in fact possible.

Basically the Sarrhuk can grant any ability that the DM says it can (samples provided to aid in that descision). The Pun-Pun fiasco comes from the a priori assumption that the DM will stamp OK on any request that he could acquiesce to - which is all of them. It is essentially the argument "Overgods don't have a Level Adjustment, therefore I could play one." - only for some reason people actually give a damn.

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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by JonSetanta »

So I was correct for once? Is it too soon to say "Holy Destrachanfarts I made an intelligent post!"
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Re: enjoying a game dispite it's flaws?

Post by virgil »

Wouldn't that same reasoning be applied towards the idea of a rogue giving himself epic feats without having to meet the prerequisites?
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