So, the 4e rogue. Discuss!

[Voss]

Developers purchasing the OGL Designer’s Kit will receive updated pre-publication versions of the 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons core rules through the time of launch

It provides three hardcopy pre-publication versions of the three core rule books, copies of the OGL and SRD, and a FAQ. Publishers will continue to receive updates to these rules as changes are made, one in the beginning of February and possibly one in March

I'm not sure why you're having difficulty with this one, K. There have been other recent statements too, where the devs are saying it isn't done, and hasn't gone to the publishers, and they still have final decisions they haven't made yet.

And here's a link from the 13th-
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... [br][quote]

For the next several weeks, you’ll be seeing fewer 4th Edition Design and Development columns than normal. This is because the writers, all of whom are members of the R&D staff, are busy finalizing the Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, and Monster Manual. As a result, we’re scaling back the number of online articles. Once the three core rulebooks are off to the printer[/quote]

As of 2 weeks ago, the books were still at WotC, still being finalized.


I fully expect them to muck up the typesetting and/or assume they can make the changes make sense without fucking up the typesetting. Which means, of course, half-assed abbreviated rules that don't make sense.

[tzor]

1203979501[/unixtime]]Tzor, you old timers were killed by the very living walls, ceiling, and floors of the dungeons.
And that was if walking into an invisible cube-shaped ooze didn't get you first.

You know, I never really heard of a "living wall" until 2E. The way most people designed dungeons walls were the "secret joke" according to our measurements the wall is one foot thick or less but breaking it down was out of the question. I don't even remember many Gel Cubes and any I did were still filled with the stuff of their victims they could not digest.

Gas Spores, Shreekers, pit traps, now that's another story. Poison gas was the "in thing." I mean if you went to the trouble of drawing a detailed map on your graph paper who could not resist taking the green pencil and filling in a few of the rooms just for fun. Secret, concealed and one way doors were also required. And slime. Lots of slime. And ooze. Plenty of ooze. And to make the wizard smile, a rust monster.

[JonSetanta]

And of course there will always be 'online updates', which is a new way of saying 'online errata'.

[Talisman]

1204056662[/unixtime]]And of course there will always be 'online updates', which is a new way of saying 'online errata'.

Yes, and with the Digital Initiative, this "online errata" is built right into the system from day one!

WotC is basically saying "we know we're going to screw things up, but rather than admit it, we're disguisng our ret-con errata as 'extra features.' "

[Crissa]

That call was a month and a half ago.

To get it out when they say they will, the printer really should have done it by now.

I don't think they really know what the game will be, but it really should've been done last summer when they were playtesting it...

...And from how I see they're operating, I'd say they're within one or two years of being stripped by Hasbro.

-Crissa

[Fwib]

You really think so? If that happened, would that mean we might see another version of D&D fairly rapidly thereafter?

[Voss]

1204059797[/unixtime]]

1204056662[/unixtime]]And of course there will always be 'online updates', which is a new way of saying 'online errata'.

Yes, and with the Digital Initiative, this "online errata" is built right into the system from day one!

WotC is basically saying "we know we're going to screw things up, but rather than admit it, we're disguisng our ret-con errata as 'extra features.' "

Eh. They do errata now. Check out the last miniatures release- 4 full pages of errata for 60 little cards. I think there is more errata text than rules text.

Of course, with the DDM errata, they actually do it in a vaguely timely fashion...

[Absentminded_Wizard]

1204059797[/unixtime]]

1204056662[/unixtime]]And of course there will always be 'online updates', which is a new way of saying 'online errata'.

Yes, and with the Digital Initiative, this "online errata" is built right into the system from day one!

WotC is basically saying "we know we're going to screw things up, but rather than admit it, we're disguisng our ret-con errata as 'extra features.' "

And the real stroke of genius is making people pay for their errata. I wonder what effect that's going to have. Will we see a movement of cheap DMs who use their own judgment rather than paying for "official" errata. This could be like the days of 2e (pre-internet) all over again, where everybody not only plays a different ruleset, but most DMs aren't aware of the "official" rules unless somebody in the group buys a new printing of the core books (or the latest annual core books in 4e).

[K]

1204005243[/unixtime]]

I'm not sure why you're having difficulty with this one, K. There have been other recent statements too, where the devs are saying it isn't done, and hasn't gone to the publishers, and they still have final decisions they haven't made yet.

I think the online content was written several months ago (which all evidence indicates it was) and is being released on this timetable so that they can stretch it out so it lasts until release time.

Its been at the typesetter. Even with the marvels of modern software, they can't make dramatic changes. They have a budget for art and pages and at this point in the process ink and paper has already been bought. If they add a paragraph then somewhere in the same section they have to lose a paragraph.

That doesn't mean they can't make changes until right up the end. Potion drinking might change action type, or some stat might go from a 6 to 4 or something, but the game is done.

I'd be mightily surprised if even 1% of the text changes from the Developers Kit.

[Voss]

Interesting statement came up today

One thing that came across very clearly in an interview that The Universe and I conducted with Rouse and Collins is just how bad they feel that "third party" publishers don't have their hands on the 4e info they need. The look on Rouse's face when the topic came up was a combination of embarrassment and frustration. It's painfully obvious that he wants to get everything hammered out as quickly as possible and feels terrible for not meeting previously established deadlines.

Collins and Rouse noted that what they believe is the final legal document for the GSL release was floating around the office awaiting approval from the essential WotC people last week, but - then - everybody headed out to DC for the Con.

So - hopefully this means that everything with the GSL will be in order in the next couple of weeks (maybe even sooner!)

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t ... br][br]The goofballs don't even have the preview copies for the third party publishers who are trying to pay $5000 to get the rules early. That isn't even done.
Incompetent buffoons!