Still more Threads that make us Laugh, Cry, or Both

[Calibron]

I'm also reminded of the Order of the Stick, when Roy apparently Power Attacks Miko with enough force to fling her into the wall on the other side of the room.

Which, you know, is impossible in 3.x unless you grab those stupid monster-only feats.
But it should be possible for any warrior. I think it is in 4e.

The Monstrous feat that lets you do that really sucks. The (Improved)Knockback feat, which isn't monstrous, isn't so bad.

[PhoneLobster]

You know I still like the idea of moving targets X squares straight up.

If you could really do that and I played 4th edition I'd do it EVERY SINGLE TIME. Because it sounds more entertaining than any of the other 4th edition "powers" I've looked at.

[Leress]

The Tier System

Now I know why it's not really that good. While most of it is more or less accurate the way it is was gather is a little off.

[ubernoob]

The Tier System

Now I know why it's not really that good. While most of it is more or less accurate the way it is was gather is a little off.

JaronK is usually pretty smart IMO. What do you mean?

[Leress]

The Tier System

Now I know why it's not really that good. While most of it is more or less accurate the way it is was gather is a little off.

JaronK is usually pretty smart IMO. What do you mean?

This isn't a insult to Jaron. It is about the system itself.

It's also handy for making new classes, as you can try to fit your class in to whatever tier you like best. Personally, I think Tier 3 is about the perfect balance point, as it allows teamwork and lets everybody shine appropriately, and everyone always feels useful. Other people prefer Tier 4. Perhaps still more prefer different points.

How is this determined, even looking at what is a Tier 3 class...

Tier 3: Capable of doing one thing quite well, while still being useful when that one thing is inappropriate, or capable of doing all things, but not as well as classes that specialize in that area. Occasionally has a mechanical ability that can solve an encounter, but this is relatively rare and easy to deal with. Challenging such a character takes some thought from the DM, but isn't too difficult. Will outshine any Tier 5s in the party much of the time.

It doesn't really say how to create a class that fits the tier. All I read is don't suck, and don't be able to do everything.

Also, the way the information for putting the tiers together was mainly from a poll in the CO boards. While gaming experience is helpful in determining this it doesn't really help standardize how to determine where a class stands on the tier system.

Example Apparently the Adept (NPC class) is better than the CA Ninja, which is just plain bullshit. The adept craps out at level 6 when it's spells become level inappropriate. The Rogue is lower than the Factorum and is on the same tier as a Marshal and Adept.

[Voss]

His criteria is a bit weird (the 'one thing' focus doesn't make any sense, and isn't even accurate), and there are classes that are just flat out better than classes that he ranked higher. Beguiler and Dread Necromancer vs Sorcerer, for example. Rogue is too low (and nothing else on that tier even comes close to what you can do with a rogue), warlock, swordsage too high. Plus there are just too damn many tiers.

It could be cut down to 4 and be fine. Tier 4 can just be obliterated, with the rogue going up, and everybody else bumping down. (Really, the Marshal gets a rank?). The binder doesn't need to be split- summon monster isn't all that, and frankly once you can use any arcane item (with Karsus), you've got all the versatility you need- a binder can play with a rogue and not feel totally ashamed.

[ubernoob]

Thanks for the explanation. I *may* have been behind that poll (I was spiting a "sionecks is borked!"). I sometimes have the archerpwr handle. I seriously was annoyed with the troll citing an old poll thread (from the Fighter Rox board no less) as evidence.

Yeah, sorry.

[Leress]

Thanks for the explanation. I *may* have been behind that poll (I was spiting a "sionecks is borked!"). I sometimes have the archerpwr handle. I seriously was annoyed with the troll citing an old poll thread (from the Fighter Rox board no less) as evidence.

Yeah, sorry.

No need to apologize.

[JonSetanta]

You know I still like the idea of moving targets X squares straight up.

If you could really do that and I played 4th edition I'd do it EVERY SINGLE TIME. Because it sounds more entertaining than any of the other 4th edition "powers" I've looked at.

"Air juggle combo" in game terms.
I was pulling a ton of that in some Naruto recently. It's impossible to beat certain foes without it.

You bash them about, throw up high, and then kick them as they plummet towards you helpless and stunned.

[Voss]

ENworld and verisimilitude. It starts at my post, 'cause I want to see where it goes, but backing up and reading the stupid is an interesting exercise in endurance.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p ... ost4293789

[Jerry]

...but backing up and reading the stupid is an interesting exercise in endurance.

You must be a glutton for punishment.

[Voss]

Nope. Just a sadist.


Edit: I find that Mourn idiot's new sig particularly amusing. Because with 4e, they could go back to just having str, int and wis. Having 6 stats serves no real purpose anymore.

[Jerry]

Nope. Just a sadist.

If you really want to test your endurance, go to the Something Awful Forums and try to have a serious conversation about politics and religion.

[RandomCasualty2]

Nope. Just a sadist.


Edit: I find that Mourn idiot's new sig particularly amusing. Because with 4e, they could go back to just having str, int and wis. Having 6 stats serves no real purpose anymore.

Yeah, I honestly thought that the new 4E stat system was like a way of the deisgners saying "The 6 stat systme is stupid, but we're keeping it anyway because it's a sacred cow."

Really, I like the idea of Frank's SAME system with 4 stats, two physical and two mental.

You can combine strength and con and combing wisdom and charisma, and there you go.

[Psychic Robot]

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229710

Jesus. H. Christ. I fucking hate frankthedm.

[Maxus]

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229710

Jesus. H. Christ. I fucking hate frankthedm.

He's a pompous ass. Some of the others aren't much better, though.

"Animate Dead is Evil, full-stop."

I swear, that's like biting into a cotton ball, times 15.

[Talisman]

Those in the PHB are the rituals that the players need to be concerned with. The only rules the players need be concerned with in regards to the undead is how to attack them.

Why, thank you frankthe dm. Thank you for explaining to me how to play my game. And here I'd been giving my players all this "freedom" and "options" and "interesting stories" and crap like that.

Oh frankthedm, what food should I eat? What color dice should I roll? Who should I vote for? What religion is the right one? Clearly, you are all -knowing and wise.

_______________________________________________________
In fairness, "Animate Dead is evil" is one of the two (IMO) valid options. Granted, he's throwing it out like a universal fact, which it's not...he's slightly less of an idiot that lower-case frank.

[Psychic Robot]

Well, the "animate dead" is one of those beaten-horse discussions where you're going to rule it as BadWrong or morally ambiguous. I tend to lean toward morally ambiguous in the alignment sense, although most people in the world see it as BadWrong. Probably because they are the ones who get eaten by the undead.

[Leress]

It is not really about Good and Evil in this case. It has more to do with the fact that WOTC either can't or hasn't figured out how to implement cohorts. (Even though someone on the thread already gave a very good answer to summon). It also show that even though the 4e is simpler and it is also very restrictive in what you can add before you send the house of card tumbling down. The game say play like this and pretty much many of the fantasy stories can't be told without having the 4e getting shot to hell.

It's not even about internal consistency anymore, it's about the stick man of a rule set not being able to even handle such things as some one owning a damn dog.

Or it could just be a plot to extend the need of content so they could sell more books.

[Koumei]

Note that Forgotten Realms has the Good Lich. It's a Lich, but good aligned, with some extra abilities on top. It can also cast "Animate Dead" at will, and they describe it as essentially turning some dead enemy corpses into allies for a short duration, or giving fallen allies another shot at saving the day before taking them off for a Res.

[Username17]

Ugh. Page after page of people arguing that the rules say that morality is absolute arguing with people saying that morality has to be relative. Fucking pointless.

There are absolute systems of morality. You could genuinely do that. It's just that D&D's proposed absolute morality system is inherently contradictory and therefore is full of fail. Once you argue from the standpoint of an ouroboros where you claim that your moral stance cannot change or be argued with because it is absolute and perfect, you'd either better have a completely air tight non-contradictory system of ethics or accept that you're a total ass hat.

-Username17

[DragonChild]

And ah, AriaSilverhands is always so much fun. She's one of the known trolls of the WOTC chat, she actually admits to it, and has routinely flamed people for doing math. When someone made the claim that Improved Critical was outright better for TWFers than it was for THFers, I postd the math proving otherwise... and she said I was wrong, just because I dared to think of doing the math, because it was for munchkins and powergamers.

I'm not making this up. She seriously said only munchkins and powergamers do math.

Gotta love Aria...

[Koumei]

She seriously said only munchkins and powergamers do math.

Math is haaaaard.

[JonSetanta]

She seriously said only munchkins and powergamers do math.

Math is teh suck and for losers.
...
Now someone come help me add up my attack and damage rolls.

[Psychic Robot]

Wait, people needed to see numbers to figure out that Improved Critical is better for TWF than it is for THF? TWF = more attacks. More attacks = more criticals.