I spent 3e trying to get my fighter/mage back.

[Maxus]

BUt people are also interested in Roland? He cleaved the mountain in half so his king could move through. I understand this could be DM fiat. But the whole idea that the fighter moves through intelligence or quickness rather than his strength is a little aggravating. That's cornering the character into one mold.

Well, sure, he could be so strong he can chop mountains in half and flex his pectoral muscles to block energy rays and pull the arms off of giant monsters, and have his strength score as both DR and Natural Armor, and you could make that work.

Edit: Or he can use his awesome strength to jump like a character from Advent Children and get it as a bonus to his acrobatics.

[Judging__Eagle]

Actually, when I'm talking Cuchullain, I mean all of his non-monsterous feats.

Killing a dog that was big enough to herd all the cows that his host owned. I'm talking at least the size of a dire wolf; when you're 10 or so years old.

Like... fighting duels for days straight at a ford.

Fighting a duel until his body was full of holes large enough to see through, and being able to fix those wounds so that he could do it again the next day.

Heck, look at David. He killed lions and bears b/c he had to, and then killed a large sized creature (Goliath) with combat training (warrior or fighter or barbarian, who knows?).

The first feat that Beowulf performs is to swim from the boat to land, or something (he swims a race in the ocean); in a chain suit of armour, and he only loses the race because he got grappled by a sea snake. Which he killed with his sword.

Even Conan never did no underwater fightin'.

[K]

BUt people are also interested in Roland? He cleaved the mountain in half so his king could move through. I understand this could be DM fiat. But the whole idea that the fighter moves through intelligence or quickness rather than his strength is a little aggravating. That's cornering the character into one mold.

Well, sure, he could be so strong he can chop mountains in half and flex his pectoral muscles to block energy rays and pull the arms off of giant monsters, and have his strength score as both DR and Natural Armor, and you could make that work.

Edit: Or he can use his awesome strength to jump like a character from Advent Children and get it as a bonus to his acrobatics.

And that can be a concept. It's just that when he does that, there needs to be some fighting guy of the same level who can shiv him with a longspear made from pulling a sapling tree down and catching him right at the end of his Advent Warriors leap.

The problem with legend is that you can't have a system where some people shoot out the sun with their bows because those guys are more powerful than even DnD wizards.

I'm not saying that you can't play a game like every character is like someone from The Authority. I'm just saying that it is not DnD or fantasy in any form.

You CAN have something where powerful fighters can knock apart rockslides by growing to giant size(thus using powers from the Giant list). That stuff is on par with a disintigrate Wizard and well within what DnD can handle in terms of story.

You CAN'T have super-sayans who split the planet in half as a show of strength(not even an attack). That kind of the thing makes telling stories very hard (see how the makers of The Authority take years off between plot arcs because it is super hard to tell those kinds of stories).

[K]

Actually, when I'm talking Cuchullain, I mean all of his non-monsterous feats.

Killing a dog that was big enough to herd all the cows that his host owned. I'm talking at least the size of a dire wolf; when you're 10 or so years old.

I've seen a single dog herd cows. It came up to my knee. When I was ten.

Like... fighting duels for days straight at a ford.

It's called having a good AC.

Fighting a duel until his body was full of holes large enough to see through, and being able to fix those wounds so that he could do it again the next day.

That actually is monstrous.

Heck, look at David. He killed lions and bears b/c he had to, and then killed a large sized creature (Goliath) with combat training (warrior or fighter or barbarian, who knows?).

The first feat that Beowulf performs is to swim from the boat to land, or something (he swims a race in the ocean); in a chain suit of armour, and he only loses the race because he got grappled by a sea snake. Which he killed with his sword.

Even Conan never did no underwater fightin'.

Well, in Red Sonya he did (though he was called something else, despite it being almost the exact same character).

So, what if swimming in chain is because you have a floating bladder? You kill bears and lions because with a spear is it quite easy to do that. You kill big guys because in a world without armor being hit in the head is just as deadly to a 90lb weakling as it is to a 300lb body builder?

Seriously. These are not even interesting tricks, much less feats of strength.

Legends are the just the movies and novels of the past, but they aren't as good because there wasn't much competition and lots of people didn't have the free time to be writers. Basing anything off them seems silly when we actually have much better stories now.

[Judging__Eagle]

The 'cow herding' dog wasn't meant to herd the cows themselves. It was meant to herd cow theives that would pack spears, swords and axes, away from the cows. It attacked Cucullain b/c he wanted to get past the gate and the dog didn't want to let him by.

David used slings to stun charging bears and lions, he didn't always hit, then he'd have to grapple and clubbed lions and bears to death.

I dunno how old he was, but he was the youngest of his brothers and was too small to wear an adult's armour (King Saul's).

And yes, you're right, we do have amazing writing now; but more people can say that they know about king David than they can about... the name of the lead character from Bleach.

I've watched the series, and even I forget his name (I would have said Naruto, but naming the series after the main character is a stroke of genius at keeping the character's name alive).

Really, I use ancient stories to disprove people that say "fighter's cutting down mountains is too anime." That sort of logic pisses me off, since Charlemagne's paladin Roland did that exact thing in a medieval European story; the exact type of setting that these people want their games to be set in.

It's like saying that you want a Cavalry and Sabres game, in a Civil War time-era. When someone says that they want to buy a carbine to shoot at enemies while riding away on their horses, you tell them "no" because it's "too modern". Which makes no fucking sense, since pistol using Dragoons being used in European battles pre-date the american revolution by dozens if not hundreds of years, and the revolitionary war of independance was fought with muskets and cannons.

There are better stories, but the problem is that they're not universal ones.

[JonSetanta]

I've watched the series, and even I forget his name (I would have said Naruto, but naming the series after the main character is a stroke of genius at keeping the character's name alive).

Ichigo GARface Marysue.

Seeking the lowest common denominator, or rather the lowest average denominator, is a good choice when writing for broad audiences.
One must still have standards, though, as including the Internets and /b/ in general naturally pushes that average far lower than one would normally expect.

[Koumei]

Judging Eagle: Yeah, I had that idea yesterday and started work on renaming everything. It could work really well for Witch Hunters. I imagine Spess Elfs and Weeaboo Strike Force Gekiganger III will have some difficulty doing it, but I'm sure they can find a solution.

K: The way you described it does make it sound a lot less like bullshit - having the ability to smash large parts of scenery to indirectly bludgeon & stun enemies is cool, and would have made a nice Fighter or Barbarian ability, or ToB move. As opposed to "Steel Rain: you attack at PLUS FOUR, and deal 2D6 EXTRA DAMAGE!"

So I suppose if you make it sound like the character being awesome and using that awesomeness to affect the landscape - with the special caveat that the landscape is whatever they damn well please ("I grab the tree and use it as a club to knock the flying guy down." "There are no trees here." "Yes there are."), that could be pretty cool.

[Maxus]

Well, you'd also need to allow the characters the physical ability to, say, uproot a tree or pick up a log and use it to swat something out of there.

I know where K got one of his examples--knocking down the stalactite so it falls onto the dragon as an example of scenery destruction. It happens in the Crystal Shard. And it got pulled off because...

1) Wulfgar's extremely strong. I'd put him at above Str 20, in 3.5 terms. Maybe as high as 23. I mean, at one point in Streams of Silver or Halfling's Gem (can't remember which), he does lift up a 300-pound man--using only one arm, if I remember correctly--and then throws him at a knot of other men, taking them all down.

2) He had a heavy-ass warhammer, which he could still throw with enough force to kill a small giant.

3) Ice isn't a material that handles stress very well.

So with a throw of his hammer--right behind he got tail-smacked--he was able to damage the base of an ice stalactite enough so its own weight broke it loose and speared the dragon under it. That's a hell of a hard throw right there.

Which just shows the benefits of the 5-Year Dwarven Exercise Program, which really ought to be purchaseable.

"Give us 5 years and a day hard labor, and you get +8 Strength and +4 Con, permanently! Yours, for only 18,000 gp and five years and a day!"

[Sir Neil]

Even I think LotR was all the more lame because walking snacks overcame their challenges through author bullshit, instead of some actual awesome people* cleaving their way through the enemy.

Now I need to see Zhao Zilong ride into Mordor, scattering all the orcs, and slam dunk the ring like Liu Bei spiking Ah Dou.

[Judging__Eagle]

"Give us 5 years and a day hard labor, and you get +8 Strength and +4 Con, permanently! Yours, for only 18,000 gp and five years and a day!"

Advanced Backgrounds

Sure, you've got a background, everyone does.

But what happens when you've been recruited out of the Spelunkin' Elv Deepsea Navy to help with an anti-Sea Devil task force (i.e. adventurer party); or if you're a

Dwarven Marine

This is my greatclub! This is my stick! This is for fightin'! This is for fun!

Dwarves are hardcore. They plan for a war that has been going on for before any of their collective living memory can recall and have enganged in all sorts of practices in light of that fact. They prepare their tunnels for war, they train themselves whenever they have free time, they spend days crafting perfect weapons for tunnel-fighting and even go so far as to enact contingency plans that would save them if they would have already lost a major war (see: Deep Dwarves and Duergar).

The fact that Dwarves are naturally tough means that focusing on physical training makes a lot of sense. They can keep pushing their limits past what most of the other common races can, and their elite soldiers in fact do that. This makes Dwarves that dedicate themselves to just combat exceedingly powerful physical specimens.

Pre-Requisites:
Race: Must be a dwarf or a race that hangs around with dwarves, or could be friendly with dwarves (i.e. no Orcs or Goblins plz).
BAB: +6
Feats: At least half your feats should be [Combat] feats
Age: You lose ten years of your life; whatever your starting Age would be is increased by 10. This usually affects non-Dwarves more than it affects Dwarves.

Benefits:

Dwarven Hospitality: You are a hero of the Dwarven people, no matter where you go Dwarves will recognize your dedication and valour, even if they've never heard of you or even if you're not a Dwarf.

Dwarves everywhere treat you as friendly if you are obviously using your Dwarven Marine equipment or can prove that you are a Dwarven Marine.

Dwarven Marine Outfit: Fancy dress uniform, for feasts and such

Dwarven Marine Tatoos: Even stripped of their worldy possessions a Dwarven Marine will always have his term of service and unit information tattooed to their shoulder or forearm. Some Dwarven Marines get their Tattoos on their face, those are generally lifers or Career Marines. This can be used to prove that one is a Dwarven Marine even if naked or if their equipment has been lost.

Dwarven Marine Combat Armour: Choose one armour; it's armour value is increased by 1 and it's armour check and armour stealth penalties are reduced by 1.

Dwarven Marine Combat Greatclub: Dwarven Marines have to face all sorts of bullshit. From incursions of Kobolds, to Golems that have been uncovered in ancient (and now opened up) dungeon complexes, to orcs to mindflayers to even demons and devils. Often, there is no time to go back to the home tunnels to get your Adamantine Greatclub to deal with the Stone Golem that is now in the way of your Search-and-Destroy mission inside of a Were-Mole lair, or a vampire wizard has summoned yugoloths to help him raid Dwarven communities.

In order to combat all of these kinds of threats in a meaningful fashion, extremely special greatclubs have been crafted for Dwarven Marines. The wooden shafts of these clubs is surrounded by rings of different materials, Stone, Silver, Steel, Adamantine and even Wooden rings. On the pommel a silver sculpture of a stylized dwarves head is the only decoration on these very practical weapons.

Dwarven Combat Greatclubs are treated as minor magic weapons that can by-pass any material Damage Reduction. All Dwarven Marines own one that is appropriate for their size. Some Dwarves opt for smaller Combat Clubs or even Dual Combat Clubs if they are experts in two-weapon fighting.

An officer in the Dwarven Marines can be denoted by the gold sculpture that decorates the pommels of their club or greatclub.

The Dwarven Marine PX: If you lose any Dwarven Marine equipment, you'll need to find a Dwarven Marine Quartermaster (Q) to get you a new item, or to get your current one exchanged for a different one.

Exchanging can take more time than usual if you are not a dwarf (the DM Q will get you a new armour made for you and will hang on to your old armour to be there if you need it back or to give to an other DM).


Dwarven Toughness: +X on all constitution and strength-based checks; where X equals ...

True Grit: Bonus on will saves

Semper Fi: -X on all wisdom based checks with other DM's of higher rank or higher level (often the same thing)

[Maxus]

I love it!

For the record, though, the Dwarven Exercise program was a joke on Wulfgar's upbringing. He got captured after a battle when he was 13, and spent five years living with the dwarves and being expected to work like a dwarf. Naturally, this paid off nicely when his indentured service ended.

[Judging__Eagle]

The greatclub being part of the marching song... and then being part of the background was something that I didn't realize until it happened.

I knew that axe, spear and mace don't work so well as weapon = penis.

the idea of a 'great' weapon for a dwarf that was both always good, and yet not overpoweredbroken was based on how i allow great clubs to be used in my games as it is.

Elves, halflings, etc. need their own as well.

I'm thinking that the +X to str -X to Wisdom be based on 1/2 your Hit Dice?

[JonSetanta]

For elves and halflings more like + DEX and - STR as they become increasingly waifish, otherworldly, and insectlike.

Mialee, for instance.

[Judging__Eagle]

Sorry, I was thinking about how I hadn't finished the two things for the Dwarves that were actually defined in the post that inspired that idea.

how about gnomes?

turn into tree stumps and rocks? (tree hugger, literally, they lean back and become part of it and sort of jst sitting around forever and watching nature; becoming more fey-like than ... gnome... which is a type of traditional fey. oyvey.)

speak with badgers. and rabbits. and foxes, and deer, and bears and... owl bears. those types of creatures now become cohort or minion options... oh man, you turn into the Lorax.

turn into an illusion (that's like.... a lvl 15 background... and now backgrounds start looking like PrCs instead of "race kits"... sigh)

It's actually pretty funny how both tropes (dwarven tank, elven archer) and archetypes (forest-dwelling archer, plate/sheild/sword guy) are given all sorts of bonuses for you know being uncreative or unoriginal.

I guess I want to be Cuchullain. But on my terms, and in my way.

I don't want to kill the dog that it keeping me from a party that I'm invited to (and I'm underage); I want to either befriend it, or trick it into running away, or cook it and eat it, or open the gate so that the cows stampede and it gets distracted).

I want to hold up an army from approaching my lord's lands. But that could mean anything from: slipping some fox meat into the stewpot of the female cheiftan (... wait, I was thinking begin menstruation, not increase fertility...i got nothing to use the tactic*: End the Book); start the enemies animals stampeding; spray the enemies tents and food with foul substances (rotted cow's blood, rotted milk, the tannins in water used to boil leather or bark); harrass them for days before they arrive, punji traps, ditches, felled trees, sniping from the forest etc.

*:Consequently, that's one reason the raid on cooley (sp?) ridge ended 'early', the warchief had such bad cramps that it was thought that she might die and even Cuchullain guarded the van to make sure she got home alive and safe. Which is pretty crazy, but the code that supposedly existed at the time also allowed a single person to not let anyone pass unless he was beaten in single combat; which is how Cu kept them at the ridge, he just killed one guy at a time in duels for days straight.

I want to rampage across an army, but I don't want to have to be a nine-foot tall Warp Spasm monster or plough my way through Groo-style, or .... sigh, swinging my chains "Kratos" style, that guy really takes the wind out of my character's sails. I'm really a big fan of kusari-gamas for their reach and TWF-ability. Or perhaps chopping my way with giant sweps of my sword Teutonic knight vs lithuanian peasant levy-style or like that guy in the first (2nd?) season of naruto with the giant sword.

or have to fight an enemy more than once in as many days; but the fights could be different; grappling, armsmanship (use the defense action!), playing chess/go/monopoly, archery at each other or a race where we can fight each other and each other's horses.

The same goals, but different methods to achieve them.

[JonSetanta]

how about gnomes?

turn into tree stumps and rocks? (tree hugger, literally, they lean back and become part of it and sort of jst sitting around forever and watching nature; becoming more fey-like than ... gnome... which is a type of traditional fey. oyvey.)

speak with badgers. and rabbits. and foxes, and deer, and bears and... owl bears. those types of creatures now become cohort or minion options... oh man, you turn into the Lorax.

turn into an illusion (that's like.... a lvl 15 background... and now backgrounds start looking like PrCs instead of "race kits"... sigh)

I made stuff similar to this for Feybook but it's much more difficult to implement than you might expect at first.
Treemelding is similar to burrow and ghosting but with a limitation. Frank claimed burrow is too powerful for low to mid level play, along with ghosting sprites, simply unfit for an early racial ability.

Loraxing seems more like a language option than any special power but that can be given freely as early as L1.

Becoming an illusion... has merits. How would that interact with Dispel magic, True Seeing, and disbelief?

[Judging__Eagle]

I don't know, you turn solid I guess. I was thinking of a ghostly gnome wizard and thought... "hey, obviously an illusion, since gnomes use illusions"

Forest Sitter

"I like the woods. I can lie back and see the sun's rays move through the leaves. No one bothers me, and I make sure that no one bothers the forest either."

Not all Gnomes are wizards, craftsmen or whathaveyou. Some Gnomes, specifically forest Gnomes, prefer to just hang out in the woods and watch everything from a stationary point.

These peaceful souls eventually become part of the immortal woods and become immortal as well. So long as they can return to the woods which give them peace.

Pre-Reqs

Race: Gnome
Skills: Knowledge (Nature), Survival must have at least as many ranks as your cross class skills can have. If this is no so, you lose the benefits of this Background, but can regain them if the ranks later increase to the minimum level
Special: Must not harm trees, fey or animals except in self-defense, must try to help threatened or injured forests, animals and fey. This requirement may be applied to an individual plant, tree, forest or all forests when determining order of importance (so, a planes-hopping Druid can't be asked to stop orc lumbermen when he has to worry about an army of fiendish Ogrillons/Orogs invading ... 'some planar forest').

Benefits

Forest Friend: Fey and Animals treat you as a kindred spirit. You are treated by Fey and Animals as if they were at least friendly. You cannot communicate unless you share a language, but you can get across ideas such as "fire", "come", "run", etc.

Lay on the grass: When lying prone in a natural setting you are seen by anyone passing by as a natural occurring object to whatever area you are in. A tree, rock, puddle is what is seen. felt, heard, etc. This is an arbitrary effect.

Sitting up, standing etc. breaks this effect.

Take a nap: Sleeping on the ground fills you with energy.

As long as you can sleep on a natural material that come out of the ground (even an enclosed greenhouse counts, if there's a dirt bed with plants in/on it) that day does not count towards your dying pf old age, aging penalties or the like. You still accrue age bonuses to mental ability scores and have no maximum age as long as you can continue to sleep on natural materials that come out of the ground.

Tree Speak: Plants and trees know what you are and will tell you about threats that have been noticed in the forest.

You are never flat-footed in a place that has plants. You always act in the surprise round in such environments.

Walkabout: Sometimes a Tree Sitter wants to see new sites within their environment, or has to resolve a problem quickly before a meadow is burned or forest cut. Other times, a Tree Sitter wants to have a change of scene and their wanderlust takes them across plains, rivers and mountains.

Tree Sitter's can use the Tree Stride spell at will with a few modifications. First, the distance they can travel per 'Stride' is based on the square of their Hit Dice times ten (ex. 10 at 1 HD; 1,000 at 10 HD; 400,000 at 20 HD). Secondly it can be used to travel between any living plants (this includes things such as lichens, seaweeds, grass, flowers, moss etc.).