Design Flowsheet: Black Forest

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:16 am

It is important if there are to be people swinging swords and people casting spells that swords be effective against spellcasters just as spells are effective against swordsmen. So indeed if the rubric is that using your true name gets you sword bonuses and keeping it secret protects you from magic, then Rumpelstiltskin will keep his name secret and Prince Phillip won't and they will both be at +X to stab each other. And that's working as intended I think.

I'm unsure on how it interacts with people who grab some spells and also ride around on a zombie boar with a lance.

-Username17

Murtak · Post by **Murtak** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:32 am

FrankTrollman wrote:I'm unsure on how it interacts with people who grab some spells and also ride around on a zombie boar with a lance.

Well, if yelling your name out lout gives you +x to sword people and keeping it secret gives you +x against spells then your Zombie Boar rides looks like this:

If he yells his name his match against the prince turns into rocket launcher tag with swords and spells both. Against Rumpelstiltskin he gets to use his sword at +x or spells at +0, while Rumpelstiltskin gets to use spells at +x.

If he keeps it quiet he is at +0 against the prince, but the prince is at +x against him. Rumpelstiltskin is matched evenly against him.

That doesn't look remotely balanced, unless I missing something fundamental. Is there any reason not to give out only defense bonuses?

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:54 pm

The man with the zombie boar does get a +x to fighting both the prince and Rumpelstiltskin. The downside to it is that he is excluded from several classes; if he tries to become an aristocrat, he can only take levels in "cursed prince" which gives stuff like "I'm a Werewolf" and "Koschei Defense", not things like "Rich with Taxes", "Just and Bountiful Reign" and "Beloved by the People".

Basically he gets lots of fighting people benies in exchange for a good portion of his talking to people and plot exposition benies.

zeruslord · Post by **zeruslord** » Wed May 06, 2009 1:48 am

I don't think that's really a great option to give people. Every class in a tier should hand out fairly similar amounts of benefits in combat, in plot exposition, and in talking to people. Cursed Prince probably gives him something like "Tall, Dark and Handsome," "Prince of Wolves," and "Terror of the Villages." Also, it may open up some sort of redemption or curse-breaking option.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Wed May 06, 2009 3:06 am

Of the four adult sample characters, only 2 have diplomacy skills. Chances are it's fine if one member of the party is not good at talking.

I was a bit hasty in declaring he has poor exposition skills, as he could very well have the "Ghosts in a bag" or "Sneaky scoutman" skills from his other two adult tier classes. Or from his three childhood tier classes.

I can see someone taking Ostler, Curious Child and Seer as their childhood classes before going on to get Warrior Prince, Necromancer and Cursed Prince in the next tier.

He starts out as a ostler and has adventures with the other children trying to discover who ran off with the princess. As the story unfolds, his companions discover that he is very curious and notices things. Once they sneak into the BBG's spooky tower of forboding, he discovers that he can see ghosts. They show the children to the tower where the princess is being keept. Various shenanigeins go on to steal the key and sneak the princess out. They return and are made princes. 7 years pass.

Everyone is now an adult. The Ostler goes on to marry the princess and becomes a Warrior Prince. Tragedy strikes. The princess is poisoned by that BBG from before. In his grief, the Prince quests for a magical item that restores the dead to life along with other plot items. He gets it and uses it, but at a terrible price. He is now cursed and takes levels in Cursed Prince.

This sets up the story to move into the Heroic tier, where the party is attempting to undo the badness that went on when they used the magic items they got. And it goes on from there.

Jacob_Orlove · Post by **Jacob_Orlove** » Wed May 06, 2009 6:35 am

Murtak wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:I'm unsure on how it interacts with people who grab some spells and also ride around on a zombie boar with a lance.
Well, if yelling your name out lout gives you +x to sword people and keeping it secret gives you +x against spells then your Zombie Boar rides looks like this:

If he yells his name his match against the prince turns into rocket launcher tag with swords and spells both. Against Rumpelstiltskin he gets to use his sword at +x or spells at +0, while Rumpelstiltskin gets to use spells at +x.

If he keeps it quiet he is at +0 against the prince, but the prince is at +x against him. Rumpelstiltskin is matched evenly against him.

That doesn't look remotely balanced, unless I missing something fundamental. Is there any reason not to give out only defense bonuses?

I was envisioning it more like Frank's old Red vs Blue example stat system. Your attack stat is the same as your defense. So with their True Name bonuses, Phillip might be, say, 4 sword 2 magic, and Rumpel 2 sword 4 magic. Either one attacks the other at +2, and is +0 in a mirror match.

Our hybrid sword-mage could go the Sword route, and be +0 vs Phillip and +2 to attack and be attacked by Rumpel, or the Magic route, and be +2 against and by Phillip, and +0 Rumpel.

Note that this means our quick fights are actually sword vs magic. Sword vs sword turns into a longer duel of skill, as does magic vs magic. That should fit people's expectations. People want to see Wesley quickly overcome the Sicilian, but have a drawn out sword fight against Inigo Montoya, I'd think.

TavishArtair · Post by **TavishArtair** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:51 am

A kind of half-question. How large/finite were the abilities for each class going to be? Was each class going to offer you a selection off a yet larger list, or were the classes going to have their own list that didn't overlap with any others? I'm guessing that the answer is virtually the former even if it might sometimes seem like the latter.