Doom314 wrote:
I'm still not convinced a level 6 daily power that only one class has (and then only maybe) and is only guaranteed to work for one round and that doesn't really DO anything but "allow normal attacks" is that big a deal...and a level 6 power that does that to a level 4 monster isn't saying much, either. The dragon has pretty good defenses and loads of hit points, I just don't see it going down in three rounds (with 2 rounds without darkness being the most you could sanely expect).
Whether it's a big deal or not, I'm just listing options. The level of the power shouldn't be ruled out either, as you can encounter monsters up to your ECL-4 before they start becoming wastes of time (which, combined with the fact that you can level up monsters 5 times before they become obsolete, means you could fight Young Black Dragons at level 13 in some bizzaro world where black dragons eat their spinach). Is it likely you'll have dispel magic? Not really. But it's an option.
You keep implying some sort of daze-lock, and I'm a little confused...what level 4 power do the players have that they can repeat indefinitely to daze the dragon? I don't have all the books with me, but I'm sure you can help out. Heck, make it level 5, even. Seriously, LOTS of monsters are much weaker when permanently dazed, I just don't know to what player ability you're referring to that does this.
Allow me to explain. First off, line of sight doesn't block you from actually attacking -into- the darkness. Right off the bat then, a wizard has the ability to daze it with Color Spray, preferably used via an action point with a Tactical Presence Warlord nearby (or some other viable Leader). That also leaves open Chromatic Orb, Savage Frenzy, Predator's Flurry, Roar of Terror, and Thunder Hawk Rage, and that just covers Daze abilities as opposed to dropping a Stinking Cloud on it or a Wall of Thorns to punish it for 'camping'. I may have missed some other abilities here, but as you can see it's clearly not impossible to force it into daze or some other 'screwed' situation.
You make it sound like using a minor action to sustain is a big deal. Perhaps I've been playing the monsters all wrong. Other than move and attack, what else could the dragon spend a minor on, that's roughly comparable to 'invulnerability'?
When all the YBD can do for the turn is sustain the darkness, it's not using its actions to attack. It's doing the equivalent of a (bigger than normal) Total Defense action. The zone also does not follow the dragon, so if it moves out of it it'll have to put up the darkness again later.
I don't have my MM with me right now, but doesn't the dragon's breath weapon recharge, too? How do all those attacks land all at once when it's flying and breathing on them like that? I guess the ranged attackers could at least do something then, but with reach 2, the melee guys are going to have some problems defending, unless they cluster to together...making the breath attack that much more effective, eh? Guess I should get the MM and hold it open, but I really think the breath weapon can recharge.
Breath weapon recharges 33.3% of the time and automatically when he hits half HP (getting to use it immediately in the latter case as a free action). Flying is an option for him, but his breath weapon still has a range of Close Blast 5, so any ranged/close burst/area readied actions will go off (just about all of which have 10 squares of range at least). If the dragon is immobilized (ridiculously easy with many classes' ranged powers) or knocked prone from any of those attacks, it's not only going to regret that decision, but take an extra 2d10 to 3d10 for it too.
The melee characters sadly won't be able to pull much off (note that fighters can still mark them even with bow attacks, however), but most melee characters have the versatility to at least deal with that sort of threat when it happens (Barbarian is a strange exception as it gets no proficiency with ranged weapons, so it's literally best off just wielding a Greatbow everywhere since it sucks with everything else anyway).
I guess since darkness is a standard action, the party running away every time it's cast should work...but that does mean the dragon is getting breath attacks in lieu of claw attacks, in a very slow fight.
Not much to say about that. The party will definitely have an easier time if they have a Controller in the team, as it can punish the dragon with zones. It can take some time, but dragons have always been surprisingly resilient when factors like their flying and special abilities come into play (I don't recall a 3.5 Black Dragon's Darkness being particularly pleasant, and it could get much bigger too).
So, in a closet you've admitted it's a disaster...but in the open, the party will be forced to run away repeatedly, and there's not much to stop the dragon from running away, either. I'm pretty sure a dragon will pick either a closed or open area, no?
I was just going with the assumption of a swamp-ish area, where partial retreat is possible but getting away in the long term could pose more of a problem. You are correct though that the dragon could take the fight to an area more of his choosing, which would actually make for an interesting recurring villain. Mine in particular had a very nice acid pool he decided to head back to for his last stand.
Even in these kinds of cases though, providing there's an exit out of a closet, a character could just stand outside a room and attack the YBD whenever it decides to come out to play.
Certainly not a TPK, but this is very problematic to fight, with the only viable option the players have, like you say, is to run away, thus meriting Lago's "Problematic Monsters" thread.
I would prefer to say that it's one of the few monsters I've seen in the MM so far that requires more strategy than just aggro. Perhaps that's problematic from the design standpoint of WoTC, but my opinion on them is not very high to begin with.
(It should be noted that while I play both 3.5 and 4e, I can't stand 90% of the books WOTC releases for 4e, so I'm not just trying to come off as a mindless fanboy as opposed to neutrally objecting to things).
