D&D Racial Diversity Bullshit

Sunwitch · Post by **Sunwitch** » Fri May 11, 2012 7:29 am

erik wrote:You guys have it all wrong. That prime competitor for the title of the Douchiest No True Scotsman was clearly satire.

Unless ISP is a totally idiotic douchebag.

=-D

It may have been over my head.

The Vigilante · Post by **The Vigilante** » Sat May 12, 2012 7:00 pm

infected slut princess wrote:Maybe you don't interact with a lot of real life women, but... women who are non-sluts never complain about "slut shaming". Only sluts actually do that.

I think that's the first time I encounter meta-slut shaming.

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Sat May 12, 2012 9:15 pm

This thread... the dog-werewolf rape thread had more honesty coming out of it than this.
So many arguments come out of this that boil down to:
"Racism doesn't exist when "YOU" (affected peoples) don't talk about it! "YOU" are perpetuating racism by bringing it up!"

Fuck you guys w/a brick.
Seriously the genre started at a time when racism really, really was codified if not accepted in most places. Half-orcs/Orcs i.e. racist caricatures etc... so yeah they're should be some branching. EVENTUALLY. I wanted to say I didn't give a fuck where but I realized I do. . . cause...
Well, because up above someone posted a list of all the "Iconic heroes" of D&D . . . you know what. . . It "Largely" consists of White Males and "things they can fuck" like the old pulp novel covers.
I'm not a big tropes and idioms guy but I'm sure theres a troupe about it. There's Roy, who's against the grain but, in ACTUAL D&D its 1. White Male and a variety of femles to choose from, and of course Monster Man krusk, but there really is not Black Male Paladin and really thats america's real big hang up w/racism.
The situation with "Black Males" its why obama got elected to soothe white guilt and why so many other things happen in these silly media festivals.
There's the magical negro but never even the "Lancer" much less the hero. (I saw crazy shit storms when Idris Elba was hired to play heimdall and Nick Fury was Samuel L. J. but they did brief that in the ultimate line. Still...

They don't wanna make that guy => coflict w/ "our" guy <=.
So on some level they really avoid doing that, but they do play "but not too black" or "abiguously brown" which was don't intentionally with redgar, monte cook says. . .
................
All that being said... there ARE places where there are alternate humans, in some settings Chult, and Turm, Kara-tur(but I'm sure thats full of bs to asians as well). Even in MTG they had Jamuura/Teferi's Realm
However, even the simple resistance on this board should show you how big a waste of time it is when there are actually closet racists in the room.
Dude says "Hey can you draw more a more diverse hero cast?"
and people start saying "Why, why you gotta see yourself! Are you racsists or something!?" I'm just amazed you can say shit like that without the slightest giggle.

and shadzar... shadzar... What the Fuck? :laser:

Everyones more attracted to white women? Why is this guy even here. I must keep in mind I have you blocked for a reason.

The internets are great till you start talking to peoples. . .

Pedantic · Post by **Pedantic** » Sun May 13, 2012 12:20 am

The Vigilante wrote:
infected slut princess wrote:Maybe you don't interact with a lot of real life women, but... women who are non-sluts never complain about "slut shaming". Only sluts actually do that.
I think that's the first time I encounter meta-slut shaming.

Pretty sure that was just the normal kind. I mean, he just said "some women are sluts. You can tell because they whine."

Wrathzog · Post by **Wrathzog** » Sun May 13, 2012 7:48 am

Midnight V wrote:Everyones more attracted to white women?

I thought they proved that (with science). Related to how asian men are the least attractive things ever.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Sun May 13, 2012 8:14 am

Wrathzog wrote:Related to how asian men are the least attractive things ever.

Are we not counting Gaakt as an asian man?

Wrathzog · Post by **Wrathzog** » Sun May 13, 2012 8:32 am

No way. That dude is way too pretty to be a man.

But seriously, The article I read was like from 3 years ago and trends may have shifted. Google is telling me that Asians are super popular, though I want to say it's probably just Asian Women are popular. I can't seem to find any data that's been broken down into Genders.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sun May 13, 2012 10:36 am

Wrathzog, unless you're being ironic (hard to tell over the Internet, I apologize) you should really read this first before sticking to that opinion.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa

OgreBattle · Post by **OgreBattle** » Sun May 13, 2012 11:27 am

If I had a time machine I would create a collaboration between Gackt, Prince, and David Bowie when they were all in their 20's.

Midnight_v · Post by **Midnight_v** » Sun May 13, 2012 2:04 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Wrathzog, unless you're being ironic (hard to tell over the Internet, I apologize) you should really read this first before sticking to that opinion.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa

Thanks for that lago I really couldn't remember that guys name but I did remember the article. Fuuuuck...
Although I will say, I think attraction "for the most part" is programmed into you, and we get a lot of race bias as programming when young, mostly cause well you know... hollywood.
Now there are things like anime, and bolly wood buuut... they came in prety damned late.

There was one more thing that "I THINK" Prak said I'll go dig for that...
My apologies Prak it was
...You lost me.

I'm going to step in here and say that I do think I'd be rather disoriented if most of the actors in TV or the art in my RPGs were primarily non-white.

Right except it reads like:

I'm going to step in here and say that I do FEEL rather disestablished when most of the actors in TV and the art in my RPGs almost NEVER reflect my existance

That thing about sex I noted earlier is so real I remember bringing up something about minority depictions in the "Female issues Forum" over on WOTC D&D boards, and was met with net effect "SHUT UP! Fuck minorities. We just want more TITTIES!!" Though I'm sure they'd settle for minority titties.

Something once of my friend said once was "Asian men don't exist, in movies, there are killing machines but no men" I didn't get what he was
talking about I was like 14 but I learned what he meant over the years. They tend to fall victim to the Magical Negro bit, or Magical Oriental, finding an equally bullshit term.

There's way too much "fuck that shit" when topics like this get brought up, that and "You're being to sensitive" bullsthit.

The thing is you theoretically could totally fix all this shit with a couple protagonists here and there. If anybody gave half a shit to do so.

Wrathzog · Post by **Wrathzog** » Sun May 13, 2012 7:09 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Wrathzog, unless you're being ironic (hard to tell over the Internet, I apologize) you should really read this first before sticking to that opinion.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satoshi_Kanazawa

I'm just relaying information I found on the internet somewhere a long time ago and I may have skimmed it once.
Personally... I'm as racist as anyone else is.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sun May 13, 2012 7:22 pm

Wrathzog wrote:Personally... I'm as racist as anyone else is.

Personally, I find it pretty hard to believe that you're more racist than the average Know Nothing-er or less racist than the average contemporary Brazilian, so I think that statements like these only serve to justify intellectual laziness.

Wrathzog · Post by **Wrathzog** » Sun May 13, 2012 7:53 pm

SHRUG. I find it more offensive when people don't acknowledge that they're even a little racist.

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Sun May 13, 2012 7:57 pm

If it matters, I would have sex with asian man over a black woman.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Sun May 13, 2012 8:06 pm

Look, saying 'I find people of a particular skin tone/body build/facial structure unattractive to have sex with' doesn't make you racist. That applies to everyone. Otherwise by that same logic anyone but a strict 3.0 on the Kinsey scale would be sexist, which is absurd.

But when you make sweeping statements like 'black women and asian men are unattractive' with no qualifiers, that -- while still not technically making you a racist -- still makes you sound like a giant douche, because it is the standard racist technique of denigrating 'wrong' races by calling their men/women ugly. And then using that logic to say that they prefer people outside of their subset and lust for members of the 'prettier' races. Shit, Thomas Jefferson flat-out said that would be the big reason for the coming race war if we didn't expel black freedmen in his crazy bastard twilight days.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sun May 13, 2012 8:59 pm

Wrathzog wrote:SHRUG. I find it more offensive when people don't acknowledge that they're even a little racist.

How does this apply to all at the criticism leveled at your comment:

IE, that you are as racist as everyone else makes no sense, because people are not equally racist.

If you are as racist as the average(mode) of all people, that's a thing you could actually be, but it means you are slightly more racist than anyone I am willing to not condemn. If you are as racist as the average(mean) person, then whatever, that's something you could be, and not particularly worthy of condemnation, though no reason to rest on your laurels and keep talking about how ugly Asian men are.

But you cannot be "as racist as everyone else" because everyone else includes people who are way less racist than you, and way more racist than you.

Wrathzog · Post by **Wrathzog** » Sun May 13, 2012 11:50 pm

Oh wait, internet. I am an asian man. I was poking fun at myself.

Also, the article was talking about attractiveness in the whole sense, not just the physical. Desirability might've been a better word. For whatever reason, women just didn't want to date Asian Men. I don't remember there being a single contributing factor to that.
I wish I could find that article but my google-fu is failing me.

Kaelik wrote:How does this apply to all at the criticism leveled at your comment:

I thought the shrug was indicative of my intent: I ignored the criticism; I think that everyone is racist. I would just like people to admit it about themselves. You can't fix a problem without first acknowledging its existence, after all.

Neurosis · Post by **Neurosis** » Mon May 14, 2012 5:13 am

Wrathzog wrote:SHRUG. I find it more offensive when people don't acknowledge that they're even a little racist.

I'm sure I'm more than a little racist. But I'm not sure that's either here nor there...

Chamomile · Post by **Chamomile** » Mon May 14, 2012 5:15 am

There are two things I won't stand for. Racism and Asians.

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Mon May 14, 2012 12:56 pm

Wrathzog wrote: For whatever reason, women just didn't want to date Asian Men.

I've known several Asian women that don't date Asian men, and the reason they give is that Asian men are assholes.

Blasted · Post by **Blasted** » Tue May 15, 2012 1:39 am

I believe that it was an oktrends article, with heavy qualifiers.
As in, there's a whole lot of social status going on at the same time.

actually, oktrends had a couple:
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your- ... -you-back/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/same- ... ace-reply/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-r ... ople-like/

It's interesting, but I think that you'd have a hard time applying it globally, or anywhere outside the US for that matter.

Sunwitch · Post by **Sunwitch** » Thu May 24, 2012 8:49 am

Blasted wrote:I believe that it was an oktrends article, with heavy qualifiers.
As in, there's a whole lot of social status going on at the same time.

actually, oktrends had a couple:
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your- ... -you-back/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/same- ... ace-reply/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-r ... ople-like/

It's interesting, but I think that you'd have a hard time applying it globally, or anywhere outside the US for that matter.

I think you'd find that in situations where these links you just posted don't apply, something else does. Inequality and the discrimination that that it feeds back and forth with are pretty pervasive.

MGuy · Post by **MGuy** » Fri May 25, 2012 7:16 am

Just going to throw this out there.

I was having a discussion with a friend/coworker the other day. He's not a big or even moderate DC fan but he watches the DC heroes on various TV shows. According to him (and he's not the only one who feels this way) He likes the Green Lantern from Justice League and JL Unlimited while he feels nothing for other (non black) Green Lanterns. To this end he enjoys watching the GL from JL but doesn't watch the GL show and was uninterested in the movie based solely on that.

The conversation had me recall a moment in Static Shock where the young black protagonist made a comment to the black GL along the lines of being an inspiration. I think that there is really "something" to be said for mixing more races into the make up of various forms of entertainment.

Admittedly in every game that gives me the option I make my character a black male from being Black Space Jesus in Mass Effect to being a red Guard in Skyrim.

Ted the Flayer · Post by **Ted the Flayer** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:48 pm

Blasted wrote:I believe that it was an oktrends article, with heavy qualifiers.
As in, there's a whole lot of social status going on at the same time.

actually, oktrends had a couple:
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your- ... -you-back/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/same- ... ace-reply/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-r ... ople-like/

It's interesting, but I think that you'd have a hard time applying it globally, or anywhere outside the US for that matter.

Huh. My perception was that being a white male was considered negative when it came to dating. Statistically, it seems that perception was groundless.

Voss · Post by **Voss** » Fri May 25, 2012 4:00 pm

Ted the Flayer wrote:
Blasted wrote:I believe that it was an oktrends article, with heavy qualifiers.
As in, there's a whole lot of social status going on at the same time.

actually, oktrends had a couple:
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your- ... -you-back/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/same- ... ace-reply/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-r ... ople-like/

It's interesting, but I think that you'd have a hard time applying it globally, or anywhere outside the US for that matter.
Huh. My perception was that being a white male was considered negative when it came to dating. Statistically, it seems that perception was groundless.

I have no idea why you would have that perception in the first place. Being a white male is considered a negative for essentially nothing (though that kind of assumption is pretty much the basis for why racism exists at all, as that default assumption leads to the idea that other ethnicities and genders can fall 'below' white males on some scales) . On basic principles there is a default assumption that white = more wealth, and more wealth is a definite plus when it comes to dating.