Covent wrote:CapnTthePirateG wrote:Covent, there's one point I need to raise.
We know for certain that the monsters are all going to run on special snowflake Exception-Based-Design logic, because it's Mearls and what he showed us in the playtests. So the analysis of fighters not being able to murder each other in a reasonable amount of time doesn't matter because you aren't supposed to use PC classes to generate enemies, you're supposed to do one of Mearl's half-assed NPC-PC abominations.
*nod*
From what I have read this seems to be correct, however I have no solid data as the monster manual is not available.
I just find it unlikely that a level appropriate threat will have lower defenses and a smaller HP pool than a Level X PC. From the very limited amount I have seen of monsters the monsters seem to have higher not lower defenses and HP.
They also seem to have offenses as good or better than a PC's.
Uh... No.
http://diehardgamefan.com/wp-content/up ... G_1137.jpg
Going by the encounter builder table they put up sometime back (that acts a vague guideline with a lot of holes)
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... l/20140707
a level 1 party should deal with an xp budget of 50 for a 'moderate' encounter , or 100 for a challenging encounter.
The hobgoblin, way, way back on page 23 of this thread, is a 100 xp for exactly 1. Thats right: a level 1 party of 4 PCs (or 5, not sure what their default assumption is) should face exactly 1 hobgoblin for a challenging fight. 2 hobgoblins is beyond the scope of anything a level 1 party should ever face (seriously, hard is 150 xp),
A 'better' (or rather, let us say 'expected')
challenging encounter for a level 1 party is seriously 4 cultists (from that link). Who are AC 12, 9 hp, and attack at +3 for 1d6+1 damage (melee only). Which is to say using point buy or array, hit on 7+ (70%) , often one shot kill, and only hit a reasonably armored adventurer 25% of the time. Maybe 40-45% for wizards/rogues.
Now, this tells me their encounter design is fucked in the head from the start, since 1 hobgob isn't even vaguely a challenge for a party (though getting the hit will be annoying), but the actual level 1 challenging fights by the table are fucking jokes.
And just looking over the link again, the hobgoblins AC of 18 once again stands out as severely abnormal. But they're seriously thinking that 4 hobgoblins constitute a challenging fight for a level 5 party, and a single fireball just ends it.
I don't even know what to tell you. The evil mage is supposedly a very hard fight for a level 2 party (if he has a single commoner attached), but the most he can do is hold person, or strip off hit points with magic missile. But he's mostly a level 4 wizard, but uses different hit dice, but ends up with roughly the same number of hit points as a decently built level 4 PC (8+3d6+6).
But again, from a monster design perspective its a joke, since the fighter archer build seriously hits him on a 5+, and drops probably 15 points of damage on him turn 1. (+7 to hit vs AC fucking 12, action surge for two attacks). So realistically he's a trap monster that will strip off ~10 hp each time he gets an action, and depending on how the initiative dice fall, that should be once or even never. The best it can do is magic missile, move, and bonus action: misty step for a 30' teleport and lead the party into
another encounter because as designed, the evil mage does jackshit.
And going back to the idea that monsters have better numbers, lets look at the doppelgänger. AC 14, 52 hp, 2 attacks at +6 for 7 each. And surprise attack for a bonus +10 damage on the first round of combat, if it surprises. Now, this is worded differently from sneak attack (or course), so I think the assumption is it can get this bonus damage for both attacks, assuming surprising and hitting. But realistically, after the first round, this guy has +3 to hit and damage over those fucking cultists which are 25 xp compared to
700. Which, by the table is... seriously something the party shouldn't be facing
at all until level 6. At which point, even without magic weapons, the great sword fighter says 'Attack! Extra attack! Action surge: bonus attack!' and rolls at +8 (fighter, so 2 stat ups already at level 6, so 20 str), hitting on 6+, so good odds for somewhere around 36 damage. At which point another party member pokes it with something and it falls over dead. And once again, this was 700 xp out of a 750 xp 'hard' encounter for a level 6 party which is effectively soloed by one guy in a single round.
The encounter design is fucking horrible toliet paper, where the main purpose (if there is any at all) is for the fucking monsters to jump you and strip off a chunk of healing. (Which comes out of each players hit die budget, mundane potions of healing, and then cleric spells or channel divinity (the latter of which recharges on short rests, so it isn't even a real cost, though it is often worthless since it can only heal someone to half-hp).
Also, unrelated bonus stupid:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx ... orningstar
DDI... attempt #2.
