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Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:33 am
by Koumei
Yeah. Critical dice are 1d12 per plus, all damage dice explode on a maximum roll, and once per day you can add 3d12 damage to a successful hit.
So I suppose it'd be really good if they managed to get it onto something with, say, 2d4 damage - it's possible, I guess. With that, each d4 would have the following options:
1: roll again
2: roll again
3: yay
4: EXPLODE! roll again and add 4
Some could argue that the exploded die is still one roll, so even if you roll 4, 1 then it counts as rolling a 5 (more than the Brutal threshold). Others will say "Nah, just reroll".
Seeing as you're about level 30 before you get to have a Vorpal weapon, the carefactor is remarkably low.
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:41 am
by Absentminded_Wizard
Not only that, we don't know how WotC would apply Brutal to 2dx weapons. If they're smart (which is always iffy for WotC), they'll give those weapons Brutal 1 instead of Brutal 2. That way, the boost to damage stays about the same and the odds of exploding are reduced, Not that massively exploding dice at Level 30 is in any way game-breaking.
Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:57 pm
by Kaelik
But there are still Minotuars and Bugbears that can make them oversized, creating 2d6 weapons for sure as a minimum.
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:31 pm
by Psychic Robot
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1072663
This thread has a lot of potential.
all the powers for the classes are remarkably similar (1W+effect for at will, 2W+effect for encounter, 3W+effect for daily PCs are lvl 3).
No. Yes, at-wills usually deal 1[W] damage, but some add strength and some don't, some deal static damage, some grant someone else an attack, some allow two attacks, some are ranged, some are melee, some knock back, some buff, etc. The at-wills alone are incredibly varied. And no, encounters are not all 2[W]. Some of them are, but many of them are not. The same goes for daily powers.
HOLY SHIT SOME ADD STRENGTH?!!?
Set sail for fail.
EDIT:
So do I roll initiative for the storm and ocean separately, or together? Do the waves get opportunity attacks as well? What about the mast and rigging? Should the sea spray go on it's on initiative as well?
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:05 pm
by Roy
Wow. Is it just me or can you put 4.0 on a dart board, spin around, and always hit the Fail bullseye?
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:27 pm
by RandomCasualty2
Kaelik wrote:But there are still Minotuars and Bugbears that can make them oversized, creating 2d6 weapons for sure as a minimum.
Why is it that they always represent oversized weapons by increasing the die type? It's annoying complex and could have more easily been solved by just saying that the oversized weapon is a +2 to damage or something.
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:00 pm
by Tydanosaurus
RandomCasualty2 wrote:Kaelik wrote:But there are still Minotuars and Bugbears that can make them oversized, creating 2d6 weapons for sure as a minimum.
Why is it that they always represent oversized weapons by increasing the die type? It's annoying complex and could have more easily been solved by just saying that the oversized weapon is a +2 to damage or something.
Don't forget when they change the number of die for added complexity.
Once they decided to give "natural" weapons different dice types, they almost had to give bigger weapons difference dice types. Otherwise, a Hugantic Dragon does oddly different damage than a Hugantic Giant. Die change is +1 average/+2 max, bonus is +1 average/+1 max.
Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:21 pm
by Tydanosaurus
That, my friend, is the Holy Grail of Fail!
Is that Tenzhi guy usually more perceptive, or does he have 4E blinders on? It says he's been posting for years, so I figured he'd have some insights, but it's like walking through a Costco filled with bargain basement wrong:
Tenzhi wrote:And it's very easy to implement a variation on the secondary skills of pre-3rd Ed. Just allow characters to pick a couple of professions/crafts, tie them to an ability check, and give them a +2 bonus for the odd time a character might have to make a check related to that craft/profession. No need to impinge on the actual skill system for it or anything.
Shorter:
I suggest you avoid impinging the skill system with crafting by . . . inventing a skill system to represent crafting.
Tenzhi, talking about feats like Weapon Finesse wrote:The way the powers work off various attributes, it wouldn't work very well to change melee attacks to Dexterity. You could do it with Basic Melee Attack, but that's not very useful for a feat.
Shorter:
I haven't thought about multiclassing in 4E.
The feat thing gets to me. I remember hitting 6th level, and the entire party was like, great, a feat? From this list? OK, uh, Toughness, I guess. After that, we didn't bother taking them. I kicked myself for taking Human, I ran out of feats at 4th level.
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:20 am
by Psychic Robot
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:58 am
by Amra
Huh... as is more often than not the case, I can't actually see it because of "I've fallen and I can't get u...", I mean, "Extended Unplanned Maintenance". *sigh*
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:12 am
by bosssmiley
Amra wrote:Huh... as is more often than not the case, I can't actually see it because of "I've fallen and I can't get u...", I mean, "Extended Unplanned Maintenance". *sigh*
And *these* are the people who are promising to revolutionise table-top gaming with their shiny new D&D Insider Virtual Table toy.
Is that confidence in their abilities I feel flooding through me? It would appear not.
edit: New from those Olympian heroes of game design at WOTC:
33! All! New! Rituals! (Largely! Risible! Fail!)
I honestly wonder if new 4E content is actually playtested at all. A horrible feeling steals over me that the editor just checks the latest back-of-a-ciggy-packet brain fart for spelling and grammar, then hands it to the office webmonkey for publication.
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:59 am
by Amra
I've said it before, but if they can't keep a relatively simple set of forums up and running, I'm not inclined to spend money on a subscription to a service they can't guarantee I'll be able to use when I need it.
There's also the small point that they seem to do their scheduled maintenance in a way, and at a time, that seriously discommodes those of us living in - for instance - the UK.
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:58 pm
by RiotGearEpsilon
bosssmiley wrote:
edit: New from those Olympian heroes of game design at WOTC:
33! All! New! Rituals! (Largely! Risible! Fail!)
Wait, but these rituals are actually REALLY COOL and DO let you play Sim City or do some serious lateral thinking. These are what should have been in the core book. What, pray tell, is wrong with them?
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:01 pm
by virgil
30gp for curtains. Cheap-ass curtains at that, because you can still see through them.
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:06 pm
by virgil
Then there's the other comments on that thread that amount to "Shut up Voltaire, Leibniz rules!"
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:13 pm
by JonSetanta
4e is being errata'd now after the months of free (read: "leaked materials" to the gamer populous) playtesting.
Nerds do the work for nothing. Capitalist corporate infrastructure profits.
Genius. Pure genius.
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:16 pm
by Leress
Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:17 pm
by Psychic Robot
4e has everything you are looking for except the classes and maybe the races.
The problem is that you are going at the game from the wrong angle. Instead of saying "I need to do this, how do i do it?" you are saying "how does the game do this?"
Planar Rules are all there, they are called skill challenges. When you go to another plane you have skill challenges to overcome.
If you want a NPC to dominate a PC have them cast it as a ritual. You can even determine the breaking of said domination as a skill challenge. The players set up a ritual and have to work out a counter-charm.
If you want to go to the 9 hells, your players use the planar portal ritual and then go there. You determine the things they need to overcome and create a skill challenge for it.
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:09 am
by Maxus
So killing Balors is a skill challenge, too?
Or to put it another way...
Proposed 4e Planar Adventure wrote:
Wizard: I do the Planar Portal Ritual.
DM: It goes off without a hitch. Everybody roll until I tell you to stop.
Everybody: *rollrollroll*
DM: SUCCESS! Wow! The planar sages will remember your daring for eternity! You're now legends throughout the planes, except back on the Prime Material where most people don't know about the planes, so they won't treat you like heroes or pay you more than 20% for your items! Have some treasure you got from the treasure vaults of the Nine Hells, and you go up a level.
Everybody: Wait, what?
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:23 am
by Psychic Robot
Planar travel is a complexity five skill challenge. Rocks fall, everyone dies, and your souls are left as the plaything of a demon lord.
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:24 am
by RandomCasualty2
sigma999 wrote:4e is being errata'd now after the months of free (read: "leaked materials" to the gamer populous) playtesting.
Nerds do the work for nothing. Capitalist corporate infrastructure profits.
Genius. Pure genius.
3E did the same thing, only in 3E it was far worse because not only did they charge you for the errata, but it also took them 4 years to come out with it. And they still left tons of major issues completely untouched, like polymorph, which required you buy yet another book for a partial fix.
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:09 am
by virgil
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1073595
Aww, Titanium Dragon rears his head again, decrying Overland Flight is overpowered. You know, that level 20 ritual that costs 5000gp, lasts for 100 miles, and makes it so that the only thing you can do is make a single move action each round (anything else and you crash).
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:55 am
by Leress
virgileso wrote:http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1073595
Aww, Titanium Dragon rears his head again, decrying Overland Flight is overpowered. You know, that level 20 ritual that costs 5000gp, lasts for 100 miles, and makes it so that the only thing you can do is make a single move action each round (anything else and you crash).
Fuck that ritual I am just going to have a zeppelin built...now that I think about what about the mundane gear for 4e? I see it has all the basics but what about the more advanced one or even the alchemical ones.
Titanium Dragon is just knee jerking and it's not pretty. Oh no what if they fly over the jungle? What if they decide to torch the jungle? Maybe they are trying to tell you...screw your jungle. If TD can't adapt to players skip over a place then overland flight is not the problem.
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:18 am
by Koumei
Leress: If you start higher than 1st, you can apparently have any non-magical gear you like. That includes a Zeppelin if you make sure it isn't a magical one. Problem solved!*
RC: The funniest errata ever was Complete Shit. The Psi-fans were so desperate for some form of recognition or support that they'd do anything for another book... then they ended up paying for a book full of nerfs, and promptly proposed that they ignore that book's existence and go back to whining that WotC never releases anything for them. Despite still getting more support in supplements than any other "I can't believe it's not magic".
*The Zeppelin will fly, but that way of getting one won't.
Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:00 am
by Talisman
Psychic Robot wrote:The problem is that you are going at the game from the wrong angle. Instead of saying "I need to do this, how do i do it?" you are saying "how does the game do this?"
BRILLIANT!
