The Gaming Den

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:07 am**

RadiantPhoenix wrote:Will putting a permanent Antimagic Field over a ghost or other incorporeal undead creature seal it away indefinitely?

At least until the AMF gets disjunctioned. AMF causes incorporeals to wink out, but it doesn't destroy them.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:09 am**

ubernoob wrote:
RadiantPhoenix wrote:Will putting a permanent Antimagic Field over a ghost or other incorporeal undead creature seal it away indefinitely?
At least until the AMF gets disjunctioned. AMF causes incorporeals to wink out, but it doesn't destroy them.

That's why I said "indefinitely" and not "forever".

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:12 am**

RadiantPhoenix wrote:
ubernoob wrote:
RadiantPhoenix wrote:Will putting a permanent Antimagic Field over a ghost or other incorporeal undead creature seal it away indefinitely?
At least until the AMF gets disjunctioned. AMF causes incorporeals to wink out, but it doesn't destroy them.
That's why I said "indefinitely" and not "forever".

Then yeah, you're good to go.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:31 am**

What about a ghost? Would it just suppress their manifestation?

Kaelik wrote: Seeing invis is seeing ethereal:

I am le derp.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:11 pm**

Koumei wrote:Incidentally, what's the definition/origin of "Ivory Tower" design? I've heard the term before, possibly in reference to a blog post by Monte or Mearls or someone?

https://web.archive.org/web/20050313114 ... mc_los_142

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:37 pm**

ubernoob wrote:Super simple question.

If a creature is blinking and I have see invisibility or similar active, can I still sneak attack it? Blink gives 20% miss chance if you can see invis, but not attack ethereal (which would require ghost touch or force attacks by my calculations), but that's not tagged as concealment.

Yeah, should work. It's not something that would prevent targeting a vital area, it just means that sometimes the subject isn't there to get hit.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:49 pm**

Two of my players like to fight each other in game. One of them wants to be evil. I suggested that he should be the BBEG with his own fortress, minions, pets, etc. and have the other players oppose him. He liked the idea. He's considering being a stealthy Tome Assassin who pops in from time to time, damages the party and runs away again. I considered just letting him GM, but a GM who's actively opposing the players might not be a great idea, so I'm wondering what a good way to implement this sort of thing might be. Any recommendations for variant rules, subsystems, modules, adventures, etc. to steal from?

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:22 pm**

One way which other campaigns seem to have done successfully is to run him through as a PC, then at some point take his character sheet away and declare that it's now a new campaign, and everyone is crusading against last campaign's PCs.

Discuss that first though; don't just spring it.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:55 pm**

He wants to be able to play the BBEG against other players. Becoming a BBEG and making a dungeon would be a solo game with him in it. I guess what I'm looking for is ways in which a PC could feasibly become BBEGs, or some tips about how BBEGs become who they are, make dungeons and stuff them with dangerous things. Stuff that comes to mind is using a Lyre of Building to make a fortress, using the leadership feat to get minions (isn't enough to populate a dungeon (higher than level 1 anyway), but it's a start), buying or making traps and placing them all over the place, capturing hostile monsters and putting them in parts of the fortress you want to protect from intruders, hiring minions and mercenaries (are there rules for these?), etc.

Posted: **Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:13 pm**

radthemad4 wrote:He wants to be able to play the BBEG against other players. Becoming a BBEG and making a dungeon would be a solo game with him in it. I guess what I'm looking for is ways in which a PC could feasibly become BBEGs, or some tips about how BBEGs become who they are, make dungeons and stuff them with dangerous things. Stuff that comes to mind is using a Lyre of Building to make a fortress, using the leadership feat to get minions (isn't enough to populate a dungeon (higher than level 1 anyway), but it's a start), buying or making traps and placing them all over the place, capturing hostile monsters and putting them in parts of the fortress you want to protect from intruders, hiring minions and mercenaries (are there rules for these?), etc.

Wizards basically get the whole BBEG kit for free. Between necromancy, dominate person, and planar binding they get plenty of access to the minion minigame. Building the fortress can be done with a combination of disintegrate, wall of stone, fabricate, and Symbol of XYZ (for traps). With the exception of the Symbol spells, and creating undead, none of that even costs money. It's just stuff you can do in your spare time for free. And if you want free traps, there's always Explosive Runes.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:31 am**

Working on my Greyhawk stuff some more and found that some dwarves have strongholds in the barrier peaks.

...what are the chances that those dwarves haven't dug into those downed space ships and looted future weapons and radiation? 0? Less than 0?

I'm thinking there needs to be a couple regional feats for the Barrier Peaks, one which is "you have swag from a spaceship" and one which is "you have swag from a spaceship in your blood."

What would be appropriate for that sort of idea?

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:38 am**

it is energy, not magic, so why would it? if it were a spell creating the ghost or and illusion it wold disrupt those, but the real thing would have no affect.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:40 am**

shadzar wrote:it is energy, not magic, so why would it? if it were a spell creating the ghost or and illusion it wold disrupt those, but the real thing would have no affect.

Because the spell says it does:

Antimagic Field wrote:Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:45 am**

Quick: Which Angels are gendered?

I need to populate a celestial BDSM club.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:49 am**

D&D angels or real life angels?

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:33 am**

I think most of the celestial humanoids come in male and female versions.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:44 am**

hyzmarca wrote:Quick: Which Angels are gendered?

I need to populate a celestial BDSM club.

Okay, context.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:55 am**

hyzmarca wrote:Quick: Which Angels are gendered?

I need to populate a celestial BDSM club.

Shin Megami Tensei has several "demons" that would probably work pretty well.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:06 am**

In MegaTen, the basic Angel is pretty much the sexiest one.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:32 am**

Wiseman wrote:
hyzmarca wrote:Quick: Which Angels are gendered?

I need to populate a celestial BDSM club.
Okay, context.

Context: I've spent the last four days with no internet access and nothing to do but repeatedly read the Sunstone PDFs I downloaded.

Also, I'm still kind of annoyed by the whole BDSM is Evil thing in the Book of Vile Darkness.

More context, it's a Planescape game where the PCs are facilitators of backroom political deals among the Lawful planes, mostly the Heavens and Hells. This allows them to hobnob with characters far above their level without being pasted, because they have credentials that Devils and Archons are both bound to respect.

They're currently heavily mired in Celestial politics, which while Lawful and Good are not remotely clean.

Anyway, a meeting with a major client is taking place in a Celestial BDSM club, where Archons get their freak on in a safe, sane, and consensual manner. There might also be a subplot involving the theft of a powerful artifact holy gimp suit, which a Pit Fiend client wishes to use to bind and usurp his Archdevil master.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:39 am**

...coincidentally I've been working on something that you might find useful:

The Indulgent Palace
Sheer drapery, luxurious throws and plush pillows in deep reds and purples and gold array the thick pile rug in the parlour. Tables and chairs of stout mahogany, dark like rich mead or coffee, stand on hard wood to one side, where guests and clients quaff and gamble and flirt. The bar stretches across the far wall at waist height, the stain of the wood sparkling despite decades of use. Heady incense fills the air, igniting one’s lusts and hungers. The air is so rich with the scent of foods from across the multiverse one can taste flavours in the air. Laughter—deep and throaty, light and ladylike, bawdy and raucous—mingles with shouts and chatter and cries of triumph and defeat. Even when it is freezing outside, with snow or rain driving down like arrows, or burning hot, the heat of the sun flattening all oppressively, the Palace is pleasantly mild. The moment you step in, the air crackles with the heat of a hearth, or tinkles with the chill of cool water splashing over you, warming you up or cooling you off, then evening out.

Beings of every type—stout lizardmaidens, lithe dark elf men, solid dwarves with long smooth radiant hair—lounge upon the chaises and sofas of the parlour. Their bodies vary across the entire spectrum as a whole, but all are stunningly beautiful, even if only to their own people.
Two grand staircases lead up from the parlour, surrounding it and the bar like entwining serpents with scales of lush velvet and spines of polished wood. The staircases meet at a landing above the bar which leads deeper inside the palace, to rooms where all myriad pleasures may be pursued in private and small parties.

All that you desire can be found within
The Indulgent Palace is more than a simple brothel. Founded by a Marilith conduit who grew tired of the endless war of blood, it caters to whatever pleasure or vice one might seek. Certainly prostitution is a large part of its business, but it also sells all manner of narcotics, drinks, services, and even provides such simple pleasures as a perfectly hot bath and a warm bed or a library full of books.

The Palace Itself
The Palace itself is a demiplane, the front door of which connects to a host of portals throughout the multiverse. Many larger cities on the material plane have portals to the Palace in mundane buildings which serve as welcoming landings to the palace proper, where an attendant makes sure those who enter know the nature of the palace. On other planes, the Palace has ornate freestanding doorways which serve as portals to it. The façade of a Palace portal is always decadent and ornate. It is constructed of materials which would be exotic, but not unattainable for the area it is established within, and gives the impression of opulence and wealth.

The parlour of the Palace is lounge, bar and tavern. The tables of the tavern side are almost always full of patrons drinking, eating and gambling. Those who work for or freelance at the Palace can be found mingling with the patrons , or looking sultry and desirable on the lounges and sofas which fill the carpet. Rooms shoot off from the parlour with indoor glades and grottos, communal baths and steam rooms, and even rooms that look more like training areas. The intent is to provide the basic comforts of whatever being may enter the Palace and allow any being to court paramours, even if their race does that through what would be savage combat to anyone else. The entry room is enchanted to always be a pleasant temperature, though this is based typical flesh and blood beings’ preferences. Creatures from particularly hot or cold climates, such as azer/salamanders or white/silver dragon, would feel cold/hot, but not necessarily uncomfortable.

Up the stairs and down the hallway are private and party bedrooms.
Private rooms are about 13’ square, with large four-poster beds with drapes and curtains and small nightstand, large writing desks with leather chairs, a fireplace and deep hearth in the back corner which the bed partially sits upon with a dish shaped chair and side table, a dresser, and cloak rack and rug by the door.

The bedclothes and curtains, dish chair cushion, desk chair padding and rug are all enchanted to reflect the preferences and personality of the room’s inhabitant or client, and are always the highest quality.

The room is enchanted similarly to the entry way of the Palace, but is noticeably cooler in the mornings and evenings (hypothetically this is due to the vaguely hyper-morphic nature of the bed chambers responding to the expectation most inhabitants have of mornings and evenings being chillier than other parts of the day). The hearth is always pleasantly warm due to the ever-going fire in the fireplace.

The Palace provides full room service. Anything which can be had in the Palace can be requested from the room by querying the Palace wyter (a sort of protective house spirit). The spirit is a security and service system for the Palace. It does not watch rooms, but does stay alert for sounds indicating violence, hostile intentions against the Palace and its inhabitants or clients, and will always respond to its name. Requests must be specific—the spirit will have delivered a requested book or substance, but the spirit and Palace staff have better things to do than look for a book on vague descriptors or try to find “something you think I’ll like.” Particularly well known guests or workers might have such requests fulfilled, but only because the spirit and staff have gotten to know them.
The upper floors of the Palace also have several libraries, tea rooms, entire cafes, music halls, and smoking rooms.

The Palace’s libraries have varying motifs, and cover different subjects. The books are almost entirely mundane, with a few that possess magical properties but do not confer magical effects or mundane copies of the information contained within normally magical books (such as a non-magical transcribed copy of the scrolls which became the Book of Vile Darkness), but cover every possible topic, from philosophical treatises on the nature of good to elabourate and detailed descriptions of torture. The libraries have tall arched ceilings, with bookcases stretching the full height of the walls. Under each book is a label holding the book’s title and author—to the best known knowledge.

In-obtrusive and discrete attendants care for the libraries and are on hand to answer questions and help find books. Each attendant carries a rod which will—when pressed a book’s label –cast Fabricate and Polymorph Any Object in quick succession to first create a piece of wood the width of the book’s spine, then polymorph that wood into a copy of the book which should be in that space. These copies are permanent, but will be dispelled if removed from the Palace. The rods are used to ensure that a given book can always be found, even if another guest is reading it.
Books in the library are available for purchase, in which case the buyer will be given one of these copies, with a bookplate stating that the book was bought at the Palace and the name of the buyer and, if appropriate, an intended recipient, as well as an ornate bookmark.

The bookplate has fine print well hidden in the decorative frame but easily readable to the owner, asking them to not resell the book. If the owner does attempt to sell the book, the bookplate triggers a disintegrate effect which turns the book to dust. There are no punitive measures taken against customers who attempt to resell books, as the need to purchase a desired book again is considered punishment enough. There are no protections against owners making their own copies of books.
The bookmarks will interrupt the magic which would normally dispel the polymorph effect which created a copy. The bookmark will only work for the book which it was purchased with, and if a guest purchases multiple books, each book will have a bookmark with a small inscription identifying the book it was paired with. When the books leave the Palace, their bookmarks counter the dispelling and render the books completely normal. Any inscriptions on the bookmarks disappear as soon as they counter this dispelling attempt.

The Wares of the Indulgent Palace
The Palace prides itself on being a purveyor of every sort of thing. Drugs, exotic foods and wines, slaves, even weapons can be acquired, all for the right price—the Palace even sells a reasonable selection of minor magic items, mostly consumables. More powerful magic items are not generally kept on hand, but can be commissioned, and the Palace will occasionally hire acquisition teams to seek out specific items that a customer has requested.
The Palace has a vast variety of wares, most if not all produced through magic where possible.

It's still a wip, but should be useful

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:50 am**

Wouldn't a magical gimp suit illusion-trick viewers into treating you as furniture, so you sneak into the Archdevil's aerie and he fucking sits on you while discussing his plans with others? Like you don't even matter? The illusion breaking if you think ill of anyone for it.

If you're into the Lawful and Good of it all.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:32 am**

Shapeshifters:
Solar
Astral Deva
Planetar

Shown as Male in Art:
Monadic Deva
Hound Archon
Bralani
Avoral
Leonal

Shown as Female in Art:
Ghaele
Trumpet Archon
Lillend

Sexless:
Lantern Archon

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:35 pm**

Where can I find the post(s) that went into details of Immortal Elves and their land being filled with Mary Sue? I think it was in "Shadowrun Situation", but having difficulty finding it. Additionally, if possible, I'd also like to see the "holocaust ghost" adventure, but the elf one is more important to me.

Lastly, any tips to finding things on here in the future? Doesn't seem easy to find stuff on here that gets buried in pages of posts.

Posted: **Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:56 pm**

First page for putting Immortal Elves Shadowrun site:tgdmb.com into the search bar.

FrankTrollman wrote:
Lago PARANOIA wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:It seriously might be a worse book than Tir na nOg.
Oh, do go on. You know it gets me hot and bothered when people stick it to elitist authorwank races and daddy Lago needs his medicine after that Exalted thread ran its course.
Tir na nOg was at the time of it writing the worst book in the Shadowrun line. It may even now hold that title because it is very very bad.

Here's the basic premise: unkillable fourth wall breaking super elves gained immortality in the previous age of magic and continued on throgh the ages doing Highlander bullshit, being involved in every major historical event EVAR, and collecting powers and skills beyond reckoning or comprehension. They are even very good at cutting edge computer programming because they were alive in Ancient Egypt. Or something. Anyway, what some of them decided to do when the new age of magic arrived was to get a bunch of the newly born elves together and stage a teenage rebellion that actually conquered the island of Ireland, and then create a new religion where the worship past reincarnations of powerful elves, by which they really mean that they are worshiping the previous fake names that the immortal elves used back while they were guiding history and fucking Katherine the Great. And now they have made th entire island of Ireland unified and racially pure and made it a MYSTERIOUS totalitarian theocracy that is cut off from trade with the rest of the world.

And it's super hard to run there, because society is extremely insular, the government watches everything you do, and everyone has mighty fucking magic coming out their ass. Unfortunately, they forgot in all this masturbating to the power and prestige of super elves to bother coming up with a reason for any player character to ever go there or care about acquiring anything that the nOgians have.

I'll get to all their SPESHUL crap in a moment, but let me remind you of some key facts: Tir na nOg is a country with 3 million inhabitants that has no borders with any other country and does not have any convertible currency. Thus, anything you smuggle into the island with great difficulty will be purchased with... non convertible script from a bullshit theocracy no one cares about. Furthermore, I note that Magic in Shadowrun is a personal and non transferable ability. So however good some guy happens to be at magic, there's nothing to steal, nothing to have, and nothing to trade. It's like someone being handsome or fast, good for them I suppose but of literally no consequence to smugglers and thieves.

So what is this special shit they have? Well, lots. First of all, they have an arbitrary super magic tradition that allowed them to summon bound and unbound spirits back when everyone else had to pick one or the other - but only if they stayed in their appropriate county on the island. Furthermore, they got these path modifiers which were kind of like Totem modifiers but bigger. They had one group whose modifier was literally "+1 to everything" which is of course completely indistinguishable from being generically higher level, and completely meaningless therefore because they were only available as NPCs and they were supposed to be used as high level NPCs at that. So all that really did was make them completely uninteresting because they had no discernible differential modifiers in the face of their already high skill ratings. Also, the queen of the island could commit human sacrifice to summon The Wild Hunt, which was a pile of spirits ranging from Force 5 up to Force 12 (back when that wasn't as big of a deal, think of the old Force 12 like you'd consider a Force 8 spirit in SR4 - definitely a "holy shit" moment, but not the end of the world). This was supposed to be equivalent to London having access to nuclear and chemical weaponry, but it really obviously wasn't. Like, not even close.

But it wasn't just magic that you couldn't acquire and wouldn't care about anyway since most of it only affects things within the confines of an island you don't care about. They also had super cybernetics! They had Delta Grade Cyberware back before that was generally available. But more importantly, they had it back before it did anything coherent. So what they had was this nominally Delta Grade ultra sniper rifle that interfaced with your whole body so that you could totally become the sniper rifle. And it hit super hard. And it used up most of your Essence even after being Delta, because it was that hard core. Except of course, it wasn't. If you were perhaps wondering if you could take several million nuyen less and invest in regular over the counter Alpha grade Vehicle Control Rig and internal smart link and shoot people harder and better d more often in a combat round with a regular high powered rifle on a drone across fucking town... yes. You could totally do that. For all the fawning over the Tir na nOg super biotech weapons manufacturing... the numbers just were not there. It was a piece of incredibly expensive crap that you would literally pay people to not install into you.

Not that it made any fucking sense for a nation the size of Minneapolis tat has no discernible natural resources, an agrarian bent, and a steadfast refusal to trade or travel to or from any other nation or corporate territory to be ahead of anyone in any technical field. But after you went through the pages and pages of elf science dick sucking, you found out that all their supertech was apparently garbage you wouldn't wipe your ass with. I'm not sure if that's better or worse.

-Username17

First page for putting holocaust ghost Shadowrun site:tgdmb.com into the search bar.

FrankTrollman wrote:
Prak_Anima wrote:I haven't seen the adventure in question, but from what I've heard, I think calling him a neo-nazi may be a bit strong. It comes off as more of a "poorly thought out idea" thing.

Of course, again, I haven't seen the adventure in question.

If you want to know what kind of work might be available in Marienbad, you need to start with two native powers—the Romani and the warlords. You also need to remember that if you’re looking to set people against each other, one of the easiest ways to do it is to stoke the ever-smoldering fi re of racial resentment. It’s not only about not liking elves or orks—there’s plenty of the old-fashioned kind of racism, where people don’t like someone whose skin is a few shades different from their own. From a societal point of view, that fear can be destructive. From the working-to-promote-violence point of view, it’s gold. See, there’s still a lot of old beliefs about who the Romani are or aren’t, and it isn’t hard to get a grudgingly acceptant population to remember their old hatreds. So on one mission, we go in there and start spreading rumors. We suggest that a sickness that’s going around and making a lot of Czechs miserable is coming out of the Romani camps. Then we hint that the Romani are deliberately weakening their fellow countrymen so they can move in on the magical ore under the ground and steal away the only chance the locals have for fame and fortune. We point out when there are attacks on livestock—attacks that probably came from wolves, but we tell them it looks suspicious. We don’t have to be right, we just have to be believable.

So we do this work, and make it so people don’t like the Romani, but that’s nothing really new. If we want real tension, we need to make both sides angry. Luckily for us, the Romani are insular and kind of secretive. I realized I could stage some attacks inside the camps, and easily make them think its coming from the Czechs, and they won’t go complaining about it. No, they’ll just stage their own silent retaliations.

That's from the intro to the Marienbad Council bit. It's a first person account of someone committing terrorist acts to whip up Neo-Nazi sympathies. There is no distance or condemnation of this piece anywhere in the book.

WORK BRINGS FREEDOM
Oświęcim was under a spiritual barrier for a number of years. Oświęcim was home to Auschwitz-Birkenau, the most well known of the Nazi party’s concentration camps. During the Holocaust, 1.1 million people died within its walls. This led it to become one of the most haunted places on the planet. Ghosts of all shapes and sizes dwelled within, frightening out or murdering all residents of Oświęcim. Because of the sheer magnitude of the haunting, a great number of other things found home there.

For the inclined occult investigator, Auschwitz-Birkenau is a treasure trove. It’s also a remarkably dangerous trap. Earlier this year, an entrepreneur named Tetsuo Shuumatsu hired a cabal of sorcerers, charging them with the removal of the barrier. He’s an arms dealer, one who specializes in the weapons necessary to take down ghosts. With such an infestation of ghosts, only a silly buyer would hesitate to pay top dollar for his wares. His greed opened this treasure trove to the public, allowing those without a sense of self-preservation to have a unique opportunity to drudge for necromantic artifacts.

The town proper is effectively still a town, albeit a town inhabited by the angry and hungry dead. They don’t take kindly to the living, but aren’t necessarily hostile unless provoked. Many are simply living out echoes of their past existences as harmless villagers. The real problem comes from the concentration camps proper. The three main campuses are surrounded by about fifty smaller camps. Each of the smaller camps is a hotbed of supernatural activity, but nothing compared to the magnitude of the central collective.

In particular, Auschwitz II is remarkable. It was the source of the vast majority of deaths—it’s what most people think of when referencing Auschwitz. It’s nightmare made flesh, almost a living organism unto itself. The halls audibly scream and cry, the ghosts beg for release so much that most people couldn’t even hear themselves speak. For your average runner, Auschwitz II is suicide. Only the most enterprising groups will survive the trip. But such a trip can result in great rewards (see The Fleshfinder, below).

THE FLESHFINDER
Deep within the bowels of Auschwitz II during WWII, Dr. Eduard Wirths conducted and supervised thousands of odd experiments on the human body. He tested mustard gas on innocents. He mutilated twins. He held people in tanks of ice water for hours or until dead. He exposed prisoners to malaria. He forced them to drink seawater. One particular implement from his experiments, a rusted old scalpel, was le in the labs. Over many years, it was energized by the various ghosts passing by it, feeding off their death energies. At this point, it’s taken on a life of its own.

The rusty old scalpel craves death. It only finds itself at home when flush with warm blood. Although this makes it a remarkably effective weapon, anyone holding it is subject to the sounds of its past victims. As a function of this, when the weapon is in hand, the character is considered distracted and suffers a –4 dice pool modifier to all Perception Tests. If she attempts to Observe in Detail as a Simple Action, she only suffers a –2 dice pool modifier.

Reach: 0, Damage: (Str/2+4)P, AP: –2, Availability: N/A (unique item), Market Value: 10,000¥

Everything is wrong with that piece. Everything. From the fact that the man described is actually a historical person who never did a single ghastly experiment and was actually just a vile bureaucrat who condemned people to die with a typewriter to the fact that an item that cuts like a fucking carborundum ax while being a rusty scalpel is one of the most valuable things on the planet and they expect you to sell it for high lifestyle beer money.

But the big thing is that you are in fact going in to fight the ghosts of holocaust victims so that you can get their treasure - the torture implements that killed them in the first place - which you apparently want because they are worth cash. It's disgusting. Oh, and the entire section is named "Work Brings Freedom", which was the Nazi catch phrase they put on the work camps.

-Username17

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