The Gaming Den

Okay, I know Frank and Spike had a great Paladin based on Smite and Turning attempts used to power combat-duration bonuses to attack and defense...

...But are there any other simple variations that would be balanced?

How about full casting progression, mount progression, in exchange for turning attempts and smite? Focus on powering up the blessings and support spells, with the option to do riding tricks instead/as well?

-Crissa

I know Caedreus has moved up with his Paladin version, unfourntly, I no longer possess a link to it.

I'm working on one myself, but school, little sleep, and being lazy aren't helping me out at all.

Keith and I are working on a Paladin version.

It has full Beguiler Casting and Full BAB and I'm not even kidding. The spells it gets are primarily healing and abjurations, so it's not even important.

-Username17

Those spells are worthless in combat. Sounds good to me.

And full BAB is worthless out of it.

Of course, people are going to cry broken as soon as they see full BAB and 9th level spells, but what can you do?

I before E, except after C, and in words that sound like A.

Sigh-Ling-Cat!

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Keeping the mount/familiar, though, to give utility to the spells and an optional feat direction of a charger.

-Crissa

Yeah, I know I spelled it wrong. However, when I tried to sign up with the proper name, I mispelled my email address and so I had to do it again by switching the I and E.

I'm actually curious why you named yourself after one of those internet memes.

But I feel you on the typo

To be honest, because I wanted to.

Ah... yes, I did my own paladin rewrite (still tweaking it and all). Admittedly, it is not designed with the same level of optimized play in mind that K and Frank's classes are, but it's worked out quite well in all playtesting so far, and it's been fantastically well received on multiple boards, once I fought my way through the usual "ZOMG OVERPOWERED!!!11" crowd.

I posted it up here a good while ago, but I'm afraid that post is obsolete by now. For the most current version of my Rebalanced Paladin, check out http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=761045

I still don't know what your Paladin is supposed to do, Cae. It all seems really more complex than any other core class.

-Crissa

PS Man, looking at Paladin descriptions makes me wonder why so many things are spells. Why is one detection spell an ability and another a spell? The spell isn't listed on the front page but can be cast pretty much whenever but the ability is either usable (at will) or some number of 'it's more likely to use at the wrong time than the right time'...

Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1170916037[/unixtime]]I still don't know what your Paladin is supposed to do, Cae. It all seems really more complex than any other core class.

Howso? It's only slightly more complex than the core paladin (making Lay on Hands progress, giving a few alternative options to the Special Mount, and adding some new auras on top of the old Aura of Courage doesn't sound complex to me... and pretty much all the rest is a rewrite of things the paladin already has, which doesn't make it any more complex than the original version), and considerably less complex than any core spellcaster.

So... what makes it seem complex to you? Because I'd readily answer any questions you have.

Because 'some new auras' is a two-page endeavor... It has all the things of the old paladin, all the flaws, and... What makes it compelling, aside from being more complex?

You know what a pain auras are in pen and paper?

At least the spellcasters get to hide their complexities in rules shared by all spellcasters or spell books.

-Crissa

Crissa at [unixtime wrote:1171001571[/unixtime]]
At least the spellcasters get to hide their complexities in rules shared by all spellcasters or spell books.

-Crissa

It's funny 'cause it's true.

Well, yeah. They're a divine spellcaster - There's one set of rules and dozens of classes that use them. Arcane? Well, casting is all the same, but how they get their spells are unique, but the rules are there to be used by dozens of classes.

Personally, if you can get away with pointing at another class's detail, explaination, or chart, I'm for it.

-Crissa

I fail to see how "some new auras" took up two pages (they really didn't)... the descriptions of the auras are not long, and the rules for them are not complex.

Anyways, the original paladin writeup is of comparable length. The main thing that's added length is... new options, such as new feats and the like.

There are some issues with my paladin I'd like to improve on, but I don't feel that complexity is really one of them (really, this is the first I'm hearing of it). If something is unclear, I'd love to have it pointed out so that I can clarify.

As for having all the things of the old paladin... one thing I wanted to do with my revision was keep the general flavor and feel of the old one. However, it does solve a lot of problems the old one had... increasing the class's power on just about every front, and making them a good deal less nova-based.

Caedrus at [unixtime wrote:1171079971[/unixtime]]I fail to see how "some new auras" took up two pages (they really didn't)... the descriptions of the auras are not long, and the rules for them are not complex.

Reality Check Time:

Not counting the spae in the chart itself, you devoted 371 words to the Auras of your Paladin variant. Double spaced at 12 point font, that is indeed 2 pages.

So you really have to ask yourself: do the auras do anything cool enough to warrant writing a 2-page essay about them for English class? (Hint: at 18th level you get an ability that is almost as cool as casting magic circle against evil)

-Username17

I think what they want you to do is to have actual spells that work pretty much like your auras would.

So, you have, say... a 24 hour Bless at 1st level; then a Prayer at 5th; then the Greater Prayer at 7th.

Or, you can switch those out for a circle of energy resistance spell (affects allies within a set radius). With more levels you get both more resistance and more resistances at once. So, when you guys go planes-hopping you've got the Energy Resistance Acid 10, Fire 10 and Electricity 10 at say... level 10.

Or an Aura that has the effect of casting Align Weapon on everyone around you; and as you get more levels you can throw on both good and law on your allies weapons (or, chaos and evil, pallies can be of any alignment).

Sinc those spells are very well understood you don't need to teach people a new mechanic.

Really, the best mechanic is one that you use that everyone understands.

That's why D20 as a 'system' is so popular, the people at WoTC pretty much figured out that they can co-opt potential competitors by saying "oh, btw guys, you can use our rules mechanics and almost all of our rules. You just can't use any stuff specific to our games, so it's Mages Sword and Mages Disjunction."