The Gaming Den

Hi all! I just got turned on to these Homebrew rules by a friend (who is usually offered up by our group on the DM altar) and am thrilled and impressed. Most of what is pathetically unbalanced and ill-concieved in d20 has been dealt with (somewhere!) on these boards, and done so while maintaining the system's inherent, creamy-filling goodness. My biggest gripe about d20 has always been that, despite the seemingly endless flaws, it remains the most tactically concrete and yet technically straightforward system I have been able to find. You've now removed the last barrier to my full enjoyment of the system, and for this, I thank you.

Now on to the questions!

1) Can a samurai designate a double weapon as his ancestral blade? If so, do both ends count as enchanted?

2) Where's Quick Draw in the combat feats? Is it just Combat Looting?

3) How, besides TWF, can one get more attacks? Without Rapid Shot, archers lose their ability to rain arrows down on enemies, and with only the attacks granted from BaB, that ain't much (2 attacks at level 10?!).

4) How do some of the PrCs work with the new base class abilities? The Boneblade Reaper requires Improved Unarmed Strike and lets you use your flurry with your boneblade . . . so could you get in with the slam attack of the new monk? And what benefit would that slam get you? Could you apply your fighting style effects to the Boneblade?

5) Can you use Two-Weapon Fighting with the new Monk's slam attack? With the new "attack action" version of Eldritch Blast? What about Multiweapon Fighting - especially since Warlocks qualify for the extra arms normally available only to fiends?

6) The Assassin's Death Attack seems to suggest that it is effective even against enemies normally immune to sneak attacks and criticals. Is this correct?

7) I assume the listed +4 "armor bonus" at the end of the Progenitor of the Gith class is a typo, and was intended as a NATURAL armor bonus. As written, you'd NEVER want that level.

A new feat or two I thought might prove of interest:

Trick Shooting: You can shoot a hair off a donkey's ass. If you want to.
Benefit: You can hit a second target within 10 feet of your original target with a riccochet. Make a second attack roll at a -4 to hit.
+1: You can disarm opponents with your ranged weapon attacks.
+6: You can bull rush with your ranged weapon attacks.
+11: You can trip with your ranged weapon attacks.
+16: You can pin enemies with your ranged weapon attacks. They must be standing next to a wall (or be bull rushed into it). Every missile after the first successful grapple check is made grants a +1 aid bonus to the total check to escape. The attack must be made with a piercing weapon.

Kung Fu Training: You know kung fu.
Benefit: Choose a school from the Tome of Battle. The class skill for the school is now a class skill for you. You can refresh any of the maneuvers you get from this feat as a full-round action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.
+1: You learn a 1st level stance from your school. You must meet its prerequisites.
+6: You learn a maneuver of up to 3rd level from your school. You must meet its prerequisites.
+11: You learn a stance of up to 6th level from your school. You must meet its prerequisites.
+16: You learn a maneuver of up to 8th level from your school. You must meet its prerequisites.

Once again - delighted to find this forum, thrilled with the rules, and otherwise totally enthused.

Cheers, all.

Quick Draw is, by the rules of Sleight of Hand, available to anyone with 1 rank in the skill.

Archers are already "the shit," so they don't really need extra attacks.

A version of the Boneblade Reaper has been written that works with the Dungeonomicon Monk.

Since a Warlock only has one Eldritch Blast, he only gets it once per round no matter how many hands he has (unless his BAB is high enough to get multiple attacks.) However, Two-Weapon Fighting or Multiweapon Fighting would allow you to make attacks with other weapons in conjunction with Eldritch Blast.

1) Sure, so long as its revered in his culture.

2) Yes, take combat looting.

3) BAB, Whirlwind, (eventually) PBS. The idea is to make your attacks more worthwhile, rather than having everyone need to roll 40 dice to try to be effective.

4) The books were written to be independent. K "adapted" the BBR to be compatible with the Dungeonomicon Monk. It's somewhere on the wizards board. See below for a text copy. If I ever get around to publishing the homebrew content for real, it'll be in there.

When you make an attack or full-attack
action, you may make a number of attacks with
your off-hand weapon equal to the number of attacks
you are afforded with your primary weapon.

5) Two-weapon fighting allows you to attack with a manufactured weapon in each hand. Slam attacks are natural attacks. Eldritch Blast does not allow for a primary and/or off hand attacks, so I don't think that flies either.

6) I've been hoping for a clarification on this one. The way it reads, you can death attack things that are immune to criticals or sneak attack, and can do it at range (>30')

7) I imagine it's correct -- I don't the the gith have natural armor bonuses, though I can't find my PsiHB. Why would you never want that level? Planeshift 2/day doesn't seem all that bad.


Kung Fu training: I expect the Dungeonomicon monk's fighting styles is supposed to take the place of the ToB stuff. Also, please say "provokes attacks of opportunity".

Trick Shooting: Benefit: Do you have to hit? Miss? Also, "your shots" should probably read "ranged attacks" Does this allow spells to ricochet? Since this is a fairly new set of rules, you should probably use more words, rather than fewer.





11.3.1 Boneblade Reaper (RoW)
“I have bested Death itself and cannot die. Your powers do not impress me.”
By K
Necromancy is the magic of death, and the study of this art can reveal martial secrets for dealing of death.
To be a Boneblade Reaper is not just to study death as a means of bringing it to your enemies, but it is a path
of dark enlightenment. To reach a pinnacle of this art, one must embrace death as a lover, and to erase his
name from the book of life and enter it into the book of death. This is not the embrace of corrupted state of
undeath, but the rewriting of the self as an avatar of an implacable and unknowable force of existence. death
itself.
To begin this path, one masters the boneblade, a symbol of the art of dealing death. Then he etches the
necromantic runes into his own flesh that mark him as one of Deaths Own. From there, he begins learning
the death art of the boneblade, mastering martial techniques culled from the study of necromancy.
Prerequisites:
Skills: Move Silently 9 ranks, Concentration 4 ranks
Feats: Boneblade Master, Weapon Finesse
Spellcasting: Must be able to cast second level spells.
Special: Cannot be undead.
Special: Must have two Fighting Styles or must have the Evasion ability.
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills: The Boneblade Reapers class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration
(Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Hide(Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken
individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently(Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight
of Hand (Dex), Spot(Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skills/Level: 4 + Intelligence Bonus
Level Base Attack
Bonus
Fort
Save
Ref
Save
Will
Save
Special Spellcasting
1 +1 +2 +2 +2 Deathscribed Flesh, Death Art Strike +1 spellcasting level
2 +2 +3 +3 +3 Secrets of the Boneblade Art +1 spellcasting level
3 +3 +3 +3 +3 Dark Life +1 spellcasting level
4 +4 +4 +4 +4 Fighting Style, Speed of Death +20 feet +1 spellcasting level
5 +5 +4 +4 +4 Runes of Lifetrapping +1 spellcasting level
6 +6 +5 +5 +5 Speed of Death +40 feet +1 spellcasting level
7 +7 +5 +5 +5 Ghost Strike +1 spellcasting level
8 +8 +6 +6 +6 Master Fighting Style, Speed of Death
+60 feet
+1 spellcasting level
9 +9 +6 +6 +6 Dance with the Reaper +1 spellcasting level
10 +10 +7 +7 +7 Runes of the Dark Reaper, Speed of
Death +80 feet
+1 spellcasting level
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Boneblade Reaper gains no proficiency with armor or weapons, although
if he has any ability that applies to a Slam attack he may use it with any Boneblade weapon.
Spellcasting: Every level, the Boneblade Reaper casts spells (including gaining any new spell slots and spell
knowledge) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he had previous to gaining that level.
Deathscribed Flesh (Ex): The Boneblade Reaper has scribed necromantic runes into the own flesh of his
arms and chest, never healing and faintly shimmering with dark energy. As long as these runes are not covered
by clothing or armor, these runes provide protection from the blades and claws of the Boneblade Reapers
enemies. In game terms, this counts a +8 armor bonus that counts against touch attacks and incorporeal
touch attacks. For each additional level of this class, this bonus increases by +1.
These runes also make the Boneblade Reaper immune to any effect that would turn him into an undead
creature, even if he is currently dead.
Death Art Strike(Su): Each time the Boneblade Reaper kills an enemy with a boneblade weapon melee
attack, he may make an additional touch attack with a free hand at the same attack bonus. If this attack hits,
he may cast one targeted spell against the target of his attack as a free action.
Secrets of the Boneblade Art(Su): From 2nd level on, the Boneblade Reaper may cast his targeted Necromancy
spells through his boneblades. Once per turn, with a successful melee attack on an enemy with a
boneblade weapon, the Boneblade Reaper may cast a targeted Necromancy spell as a free action that does not
provoke an attack of opportunity. This spell affects the enemy as if the boneblade had been enchanted with the
Spellstoring attribute and the spell had been inside it when it struck (and been activated during the attack).
Dark Life(Su): At 3rd level, the Boneblade Reaper has learned to draw power from negative energy. Any
damage he would receive from negative energy is instead converted to healing on a point for point basis. He is
still healed by Positive Energy as well.
Fighting Style: At 4th level, the Boneblade Reaper gains a Monk’s Fighting Style. Appropriate names are
generally of a dark tone such as ”Wasting Serpent Style” or ”Hopeless Basilisk Stance”.
Speed of Death (Ex): Even light is not faster than the dark, and nothing living is faster than death. When
the Boneblade Reaper achieves 4th level, his speed increases by 20 feet. His speed increases 20 more feet at
6th, 8th, and 10th level.
Runes of Life Trapping(Ex): At 5th level, the Boneblade Reaper is immune to any effect that moves his
soul from his body, even if he is currently dead. This includes effects like magic jar, soul bind, trap the soul,
and the class features of PrCs like Soul Merchant and Heartless Mage (even if he has levels in these PrCs).
Also, the Boneblade Reaper gains Heavy Fortification in addition to the armor bonus he gains from his
Deathscribed Flesh ability.
Ghost Strike(Su): At 7th level, the Boneblade Reaper can “lose” any prepared spell in order to cast Wraithstrike,
even if this spell is not on his spell list. This casting does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity.
Master Fighting Style: A Boneblade Reaper of 8th level gains access to a Master Fighting Style as a Monk.
Dance with the Dark Reaper(Ex): Due to a bargain with Death, a 9th level Boneblade Reaper must battle
the Dark Reaper to win freedom from Deaths grasp. Should the Boneblade Reaper die, his body is pulled into
a featureless pocket demiplane that cannot be accessed or exited by dimensional traveling magic. Once there,
the Boneblade Reaper is stripped of his equipment and he receives the effects of a true resurrection spell and
a disjunction, and he is fully healed. A boneblade weapon is created for him while he is in this demiplane.
He is then immediately forced into a battle with the Dark Reaper (treat as an Entropic Reaper without the
Entropic Blade ability). Should he win this battle, he is returned with all his equipment to a safe location 1d4
miles from the place where he died and he does not age for 10 years.
If he loses, he dies again and can only be returned to life with resurrection magic that does not require
his body; casting this kind of spell calls a Dark Reaper to the location of the spellcaster and he must kill the
Dark Reaper without aid for the spell to take effect. Once returned to life, the Boneblade Reapers equipment is
transported to the location of his new body. The Boneblade Reaper cannot refuse to return to life if resurrection
magic is used on his behalf.
If the Boneblade Reaper dies due to reaching his maximum age, his life is extended long enough for him to
finish his battle with the Reaper. Should he defeat the Reaper, his maximum age is instead increased by 10
years (during which he does not age any further). If he fails, he cannot be returned to life by any means.
Runes of the Dark Reaper(Ex): At 10th level, the Boneblade Reaper ascends to the honored position of
Dark Reaper, and so he cuts the representative runes into his flesh. Any creature he kills with a boneblade is
affected by a soul bind effect that binds the soul to the body of the Boneblade Reaper. The only way to release a
soul affected by this power is to convince the Boneblade Reaper to release the soul (he can do so as a standard
action).
At this level, the Boneblade Reaper also becomes immune to mind-affecting magic or effects.

Noted and updated. Definately missed on the "shots" thing. I used "provokes" because it implies "Aoos," but hey, I'm all for specificity.

Although I like the new Monk, I'm not sure if I buy his fighting styles completely eclipsing Tome of Battle. ToB allows for some very flavorful, effective, and cinematic choices, and I designed that feat to allow some of these very snazzy new concepts to add a bit of spice to single class builds.

The armor bonus on the Gith won't stack with armor. This makes it a more or less useless bonus - especially at the level you pick it up (9th). As it's part of a capstone ability, I would think something like natural AC or a deflection bonus would be worth a lot more.

Understood on the TWF replies, and that's pretty much what I had assumed. I'm not sure I agree that extra shots are not necessary, however - ultimately with an attack, you're rolling a die against a potentially RIDICULOUSLY high number. The new iterative attack rules (one time penalty of -5) help, but more die rolls help too. Archers are good with the new rules - MUCH better than they ever were (yay!). I dunno if they officially qualify as "the shit" yet. I'd take a caster any day.

I had considered the possibility of TWF with hand crossbows, but there doesn't seem to be a crossbow feat - something you need if anyone is going to shoot anything other than a bow (especially since you can't get Str bonus on crossbows). Maybe something like this:

Crossbow Slinger: Your shotgun goes "twang!"
+1: You can reload any crossbow as a free action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity.
+6: Your shots with a crossbow deal additional damage equal to 1/2 your Dex modifier when the target is within 30 feet.
+11: Suggestions?
+16: As a full-round action, you may fire a bolt from your crossbow as a 60 foot line attack. Make one attack roll and compare it to the individual AC of each target that lies along the line.

And yet another query:

Since Fire Mages and Warlocks get to use blasts as "attack actions," can they also therefore use them to perform attacks of opportunity?

I'm trying to figure out how you guys are saying quick draw is available to anyone with even a single rank in Sleight of Hand. There's an actual DC to lifting an object from a person (DC 20), which is independent of the fact that people get a Spot check to notice your attempt, and doing so as a free action is a -20 penalty to your check.

I have another question, regarding the RoW's TWF feat. Do you get an extra attack with EVERY attack you make? When you get an AoO, or when you make a trip/disarm attempt, or even when you use Whirlwind attack, do you basically get two attacks every time? Also, are there any penalties at all when wielding two weapons in this manner?

You can only make AoA when you are armed, and can make a melee attack, I'm pretty sure. So if they can use them as melee touch attacks rather than ranged touch attacks (or whatever), then yes, otherwise, I expect no.

The SoH trick is based on the fact that you can

Sleight of Hand, SRD wrote:
Drawing a hidden weapon is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity.

Any Sleight of Hand check normally is a standard action. However, you may perform a Sleight of Hand check as a free action by taking a -20 penalty on the check.

Thus, you voluntarily take a -20 penalty to draw a "concealed" weapon, the penalty of which is that everyone *sees* the weapon, but you don't care, because you got it out as a free action. Also, you can sheathe ("hide") an object on yourself as a free action as well.

There are some alternate SoH (and other skill) rules here:
http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewth ... r][br]Also note that, as written, you can strip someone naked with a series of free actions, so long as you can automake DC40 SoH checks, and they don't make spot checks at that DC.

I wasn't aware that you ever needed to make a check with Sleight of Hand to draw a concealed weapon.

+0: You suffer no penalty for doing things with your
off-hand. When you make an attack or full-attack
action, you may make a number of attacks with
your off-hand weapon equal to the number of attacks
you are afforded with your primary weapon.

I think that's pretty clear. When Frank writes "attack action", he means an attack, so yes, AoA are included. Basically when you attack with the left, you attack with the right. And vice versa.

Thanks for all the replies. That last one actually brought up yet another question:

If TWF now grants a number of attacks with your "off-hand" equal to the number you'd get with your primary hand, then what exactly happens if you have more than one off-hand? Is there any need for a Multiweapon Fighting feat, or does TWF give all your hands the same number of attacks as the primary?

If so, it seems heinously abusable with the Extra Arms [Fiend] feat. A samurai with Product of Infernal Dalliance who kept taking the Extra Arms feat would get . . . silly. Especially with all those slice n' dice Aoos as an immediate action.

Yeeurgh.

If you're going to make a crossbow feat, IMO it should be int-based. This may not reflect 'reality', but it is in keeping with (1) the use of the crossbow as a weapon of choice for assassins (see death attack) and (2) the technological aspect.

I'd actually give the feat a few levels with more than one ability. Something for characters using big crossbows and something for characters TWFing with the little ones. Crossbow & sword, crossbow & crossbow, and bigass crossbow should all be viable techniques.

The free reload should explicitly apply even when all of a character's hands are occupied.


Also, ricochet = 2 hits makes no sense with most ranged weapons. You shoot an arrow through someone's lake and somehow it manages to turn 90 degrees, come out the side of the leg, and fly into the face of a guy 10' away? That's just dumb. If you're going to put that in a feat, it should apply to blunt weapons only (boomerangs, sling stones, orc shotputs, etc).

Ricochets allowing you to attack someone with total cover, on the other hand, work for just about any ranged weapon.

The pinning ability could also be used to attach someone to the ground.

Hmmm. Interesting. I think "riccochets make no real-world sense" comes under the same heading as "let's make Int count for crossbows," but I take your reasoning. It also adds another reason for Assassins to employ their most iconic weapon (okay, maybe the MOST iconic would be a dagger . . .).

I agree about riccochet. Can we think of some other niffy things to do? That would only leave us two abilities.

The reload thing should definately be added - whether or not you've got free hands, you can reload.

Thoughts on multi-armed critters with Two-Weapon Fighting? I'm seeing visions of Shiva-style samurai, here . . .

JanusJones at [unixtime wrote:1178300285[/unixtime]]
I agree about riccochet. Can we think of some other niffy things to do? That would only leave us two abilities.

I still think that using ricochets to attack targets with total cover could work (force the player to draw a line of effect, the full distance for that line is considered for range increments).

JanusJones at [unixtime wrote:1178300285[/unixtime]]Thoughts on multi-armed critters with Two-Weapon Fighting? I'm seeing visions of Shiva-style samurai, here . . .

Two weapon fighting seems to work with only two weapons. Two armed characters already have a number of other advantages (THF TWF, THF+shield, etc). Allowing a character with multiple arms to make an extra attack per extra arm would probably work though (as normal MWF).

Getting back to the SoH=Quick Draw thing, it occurs to me that the text of the SRD indicates that getting the item is a DC 20, and the check to see if the person notices this is a separate thing.

Therefore, you'd still need to hit the DC. Am I missing anything?

Yeah, there is no DC to draw an item you hid on yourself. It's just an opposed roll (vs spot) to see if they notice.

The DC 20 is to pick their pockets.

If you want to create a ricochet like effect from your crossbow you could make it like the Exit Wounds property.

IIRC, it is normally a +2 enhancement that adds some extra damage and then lets the arrow or bolt go through the first target to the next, with each successive target getting another +4 to AC as a cover bonus. So the arrow can go through a long line of people if you TAB is high enough. Obviously, once it misses, the arrow stops.

You could easily adapt this to one of the higher BAB abilities of a crossbow feat.

Can't you take a twenty on hiding something on your person before the person gets their spot check? (which then would have the DC of your 20+skilletc)?

-Crissa

Okay, so now I've got even MORE questions!

1) Okay, so the multiarmed thing is bothering me (especially since the new Two-Weapon Fighting is BETTER than the old Multiweapon Fighting feat). How does (or should) it work?

2) This quote is crazy:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Jesters are proficient with light armor but not with shields of any kind. A Jester is proficient with no weapons, but suffers no attack penalty for using a weapon with which they are not proficient or which is made for a character of a different size than themselves. Even, perhaps especially, improvised weapons may be used without the usual -4 penalty.

So can I wield a colossal + weapon? Is the only limit on weapon size the space I have available to swing and my max load? I can imagine some pretty silly tricks with a sizing weapon.

JanusJones at [unixtime wrote:1178718415[/unixtime]]
So can I wield a colossal + weapon?

"Colossal +" exists only in your head.

JanusJones at [unixtime wrote:1178718415[/unixtime]] Is the only limit on weapon size the space I have available to swing and my max load?

Nope.

You may not use an object that is too heavy for you to lift as a light load as a weapon.

Weapons, RoW wrote:
Here’s how weapon sizes ought to work:
• You may not use a weapon that is a larger than yourself. A Large character can use a Large (or smaller)
object as a weapon, but may not use a Huge (or larger) object as a weapon.
• You may not use an object that is too heavy for you to lift as a light load as a weapon.
• An object of your own size must be used in two hands.
• An object of a size smaller than your size may be used in one hand or two hands.
• An object that is at least two sizes smaller than yourself counts as a Light Weapon.

I thought of the same with a Ogre Jester...

1) Okay, so the multiarmed thing is bothering me (especially since the new Two-Weapon Fighting is BETTER than the old Multiweapon Fighting feat). How does (or should) it work?

That's a good question, and a really hard one to answer. The true answer is probably that multiweapon fighting is not nearly so balanced as two weapon fighting. Thus, I propose a new rule.

Multiweapon Fighting
If a character wields more than one manufactured weapon, she may make one attack with each weapon at no penalty. If she takes the Two Weapon Fighting Feat, she forgoes her attack with one of those weapons and uses the rules as described in the Two Weapon Fighting Feat.

Seriously, there's no real reason to improve Multiweapon fighting beyond that, it's plenty good already. And no reason to give it a cost, either.

AlphaNerd at [unixtime wrote:1171945726[/unixtime]]

I was thinking about this:
Multiattack [Monstrous] [Combat]
Benefit: Your secondary natural attacks suffer a -2 penalty to attack tolls instead of -5.
+1: You may attack once with all of your natural attacks as a standard action.
+6: During a full attack action, you may make iterative attacks with one of your primary natural attacks in addition to your other attacks, assuming you do not make any other iterative attacks.
+11: Your natural attacks bypass material damage reduction.
+16: Secondary natural attacks suffer no penalty to attack, and gain the full benefits of strength to damage dealt.

but I think it's still probably too good, after comparing it to other stuff. What about?:
Multiattack [Monstrous] [Combat]
Benefit: Your secondary natural attacks suffer a -2 penalty to attack rolls instead of -5.
+1: Your natural attacks bypass material damage reduction.
+6: You may attack once with all of your natural attacks as a standard action.
+11 Your secondary natural attacks are made at no penalty to attack rolls.
+16: During a full attack action, you may make iterative attacks with one of your primary natural attacks in addition to your other attacks, assuming you do not make any other iterative attacks.

Catharz at [unixtime wrote:1178722394[/unixtime]]

JanusJones at [unixtime wrote:1178718415[/unixtime]]
So can I wield a colossal + weapon?

"Colossal +" exists only in your head.

You're wrong.

You can keep increasing the size of a weapon as long as you like - the dice keep going up. There is no technical limit to the size of objects; consider planets. There is nothing in the rules to prevent objects from becoming larger and larger.

The light load thing, however, DOES help me figure out how the rules apply. This makes a single level of Jester the best thing EVER for a combat character. Consider:

+1 Sizing Greatclub: 8 lbs (1d10), 12 Large (2d8), 18 Huge (3d8), 27 Gargantuan (4d8), 40.5 Colossal (6d8), 60.75 Colossal + (8d8), 105 Colossal ++ (10d8).

Every time your item increases in size, it gains half again its current weight. Since a Strength of 12 allows you to shlep a light load of 43 lbs, you could easily wield a 6d8 damage Colossal Greatclub without penalty for just ONE level of Jester.

Now take levels of whatever you like! Consider Barbarian and/or Fighter levels - good fun. Hell, if you use standard rage rules you can swap your rage damage dice for size increase dice as your light load goes up when you rage. If you want to play an archer, just make that weapon a Greatbow (base damage of 1d10) and you've got 6d8 arrows (though how sizing works with ammo is an entirely different question).

Another issue: if the size increases, does that mean you must use it two-handed? Could you use Two-Weapon Fighting with oversized weapons? How?

A colossal greatclub is a colossal object.

Technically, Colossal+ is introduced in the epic rules. Just look at the size categories for the epic dragons.

"Although there is no size category larger than Colossal, the oldest epic dragons have a greater reach and deal more damage with their attacks than other Colossal dragons, as shown on ..."

It appears to be one of those grey areas where things can still increase, but they don't, but they do, and so forth.

This is why one 3rd party D20 system that involved the use of magical battle mechs used stuff like C 1, C 2, C 3 and C 4 to distinguish between different very massive mechs.

Yeah, Collosal 1, Collosal 2 etc.


Seriously, we should just have Large, Large 2, Large 3, Large 4 to represent Large, Huge, Gargantuan Colossal; since monsters can, in theory, get larger than Colossal.

The Immortals Handbook I think has rules for infinitely scaling size categories.