Dragons that are big dumb beasts

[Koumei]

I'm a fan of dragons, I'll say that from the word go. Probably had something to do with my dad teaching me, at a young age, that dragons are real, they're just good at hiding.

He also told me lights were just "dark suckers". So I know not to believe everything he says. I know that now.

Anyway, there are many uses of dragons. Make an existing thing draconic just to add a little coolness (in the form of an unexpected breath weapon, a slightly nonhuman appearance or the whole "One day when I grow up I'll be a real dragon!" personality disorder. Whatever). Or have a dragon be a genius overlord that runs several communities behind the scene, and who's death results in everything turning to chaos.

Or how about a plain old "RAAA! I'm a dragon, I collect shinies and I seriously go out there and burn houses down and steal sheep and cattle!"?

I like this idea, because sometimes you want the party to fight a dragon, because killing dragons is the awesome kind of thing parties do. But you don't want it to be a TPK, and you don't want it to have to outsmart them all the time, and have carefully laid out traps and shit, and you don't want killing it to have any real effect on anyone other than the party and the dragon.

Here comes the wyvern. I think it's practically perfect for this role. It's about as smart as an ogre. It's Large as a CR 6 (I doubt it has the [Awesome] subtype, but I might be wrong), which means the party will actually be impressed when they see it. Add two more hit dice and you have a Huge CR 7, even! Let a level 10-11 Knight ride one of these and they have a dragon people care about. Holy shit, yeah.

Heck, in a few levels time, they reach Gargantuan, and they're still big dumb monsters. Not masterminds. Smarter than animals, but not very bright. Granted, they cap out at 21HD (CR 13), but here comes the next great bit:

Frank's half-dragon class. Add all three levels and that's +3 to the CR, and it now also has a breath weapon, an immunity and a Sphere. You might even want to take it a few times (pretend you're allowed to. Heck, if it's still considered a template despite being more of a class, then you can do this).

Or just ignore the max HD and let it then grow to Colossal, Awesome/Collosal+, Really Fucking Huge, City-size, whatever.

But I think that, with the new 1/2 dragon (for the breath weapon, because anyone can tell you that dragons breathe fire), the wyvern is practically perfect for the idea of a dragon that is just a wandering monster that pisses towns off and needs slaying.

Thoughts?

[angelfromanotherpin]

1187065573[/unixtime]]But I think that, with the new 1/2 dragon (for the breath weapon, because anyone can tell you that dragons breathe fire)

Mythologically speaking, there are at least as many dragons which breathe poison, or are just poisonous, which the Wyvern already does. Of course, some folk just gots to have their fire breath.

[Username17]

I'm a huge Wyvern fan. They are big enough to make memorable combats and not stupid-powerful enough to make combats stupid. They are mobile enough to survive simplistic winged kiting techniques and tough enough to make a lasting impression.

I've used Wyverns, Aquatic Wyverns, Wyvern Mounts, Wyvern Groups - and it's all been awesome.

-Username17

[Koumei]

1187067119[/unixtime]]
Mythologically speaking, there are at least as many dragons which breathe poison, or are just poisonous, which the Wyvern already does.

Good point, and likewise some claimed that they breathed lightning (as in, all lightning came from dragons breathing), and I imagine the ancient Norse would swear to Odin that their dragons froze people (because freezing to death was a more realistic threat than bursting into flames. That whole area was built using "It's Cold Outside"). Or possibly they created blizzards with their breath, which is more or less the same thing, except bigger.

So you are right about plenty that can just do the whole "Wyvern" thing, and as such, various half dragons can be added or not, as appropriate for the dragon the DM has in mind.

[K]

The Core Half-dragon template makes dragons out of anything really. I mean, there is no reason at all to tell a player what exact templates or even base creature makes up a monster.

For example, here is a classic bug dumb dragon. Its an easy one...

Huge Dragon
Hit Dice: 11d10+66 (127 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), Fly 80 (average)
Armor Class: 19 (–2 size, +11 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+30
Attack: Gore +20 melee (2d8+21) or +20 bite (2d6+21) or claw (1d8 +21)
Full Attack: Slam +20 melee (2d6+21) and 2 stamps +15 melee (2d6+7) and +15 bite (2d6+7) and 2 +15 claw (1d8 +7); or gore +20 melee (2d8+15) and +15 bite (2d6+7) and 2 +15 claw (1d8 +7)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Trample 2d8+19 (DC 29), Breath Weapon 1/day(6d8 fire damage, DC 22 for half)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, immune to fire
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +7, Will +6
Abilities:
Str 38, Dex 10, Con 23, Int 4, Wis 13, Cha 9
Skills: Listen +16, Spot +13, Climb +15, Tumble +5
Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Listen)
Challenge Rating: 9
Advancement: 12–22 HD (Huge)


Ok, what creature was this?

[Leress]

*buzzes in*

Is it an Elephant with the Half Dragon Template?

[Koumei]

I'll agree with Leress but answer properly (this is Jeopardy, right?):

What is an elephant? Now, I'll take D&D Monsters for 800.

Okay, seriously, that's a valid point. I really should have considered that, given I often change the description of monsters, sometimes quite dramatically.

[Artless]

Every time I hear or read the word Wyvern, I think of Monster Hunter and the pretty awesome creature designs that game has. I've always wanted to have wyverns play a much, much larger role in my games but I don't run them often enough to get the opportunity.

Come to think of it... I really just want to play Monster Hunter. Excuse me.