Low cost fire support

[virgil]

Granted, you get what you pay for.

9th level sorc/wiz + Residiual Metamagic + Wand of Magic Missile (750gp) + Sudden Maximize + normal Magic Missile from spell slots = 1/encounter output 25 automatic damage a round

The annoying part is that I know this would be decried as an incredibly broken tactic, and only the above incarnation; and it would only be after some discussion that they would even realize some of the other tricks.

[technomancer]

I dunno, 25 damage a round, at level 9? Sounds broken to me. It's so much better than the statistical average of 31.5 damage of an unmodified fireball at level 9.

I'm not familiar with Residiual Metamagic, but does this require your standard action to activate? If so, then you're probably better of doing *anything* else with your time.

[RandomCasualty]

1197112253[/unixtime]]I dunno, 25 damage a round, at level 9? Sounds broken to me. It's so much better than the statistical average of 31.5 damage of an unmodified fireball at level 9.

Yeah not to mention the fireball damages multiple targets, and that's right out of the box. The magic missile strategy requires two feats.

Be decent against incorporeals but that's about it.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

First of all, I think Residual Metamagic is only good for 1 round. You know, the part where it says:

"The second spell doesn't count as being affected by a metamagic for the purposes of this benefit (that is, it doesn't entitle you to apply the metamagic feat to a spellyou might cast in the following round). Only spells you cast using your own metamagic feats (as opposed to metamagic effects from magic items) allow this feat to function."

It seems pretty clear to me that you can't do that.

Next, 25 damage? Is that really the best option that your wizard has? I mean come on, you can be more creative than that. At the VERY LEAST if you thought that this tricked worked, do it on a fireball, or a Summon Monster IV spell that trades down for 3 Summon Monster III creatures (Hell Hounds?), or even a Scorching Ray.

Next, 25 dmg/round is pathetic. Really, pathetic at level 9. A rogue can be doing 10d6 (average 35) in Sneak Attack ALONE (no strength, no weapon, etc.). Your only advantage is that you always hit, but so does a rogue making touch attacks.

No, just no.

[virgil]

Didn't see the multi-round limitation, my bad. Enduring Potency should still apply, even if it won't carry the Lingering Metamagic for multiple rounds.

I am under no illusion that the setup was terribly good. It's quite literally a from-my-butt maneuver, without any thought as to how to use it better.

My last paragraph was lamenting on how my current DMs would consider THAT as proof that Residual Metamagic is overpowered. This is why they banned warlocks, because of reliable damage output.

[JonSetanta]

Yea but Warlocks aren't a problem in the least, now that there's Reserve feats.
Firey Burst, for instance, pretty much makes them obsolete compared to a Wizard with the feat.

Your current DMs are probably new to the game. They might learn better in a few years, hell, maybe even months to weeks, but they must seek to improve their knowledge on their own.
I'm sorry to tell you but you might be better off with different DM or group, if you enjoy mages that much!

[virgil]

Actually, they banned reserve feats as well, because of this similarity to warlocks. Similar principles went into their decision to ban the Tome of Battle, because they feel the barbarian/fighter types are balanced and the ToB material is soo much better and therefore overpowered (no idea, never read the book).

Honestly, their biggest fear is damage output. My current wizard is doing fine with illusions and just recently took out a boss by turning into a remorhaz and swallowing it. Hell, the only non-core things my character even has in any form is the Geometer PrC and an amulet of tears; even his spell list is pure PHB. Until level 7, when I got polymorph, my only damaging capability was flaming sphere (to hurt swarms) and my CL 3 wand of magic missile; yet I was considered a one-man-party by my fellow players. They completely glossed over the actual damage done by the barbarian, which was the only damage since the other two did about as much as me (horribly built).

[JonSetanta]

One word describes your fellow gamers, virg:

n00bs.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

In the last campaign I played in, I played a Conjurer Ultimate Magus (Complete Mage) with Metamagic Spell Focus (-1 metamagic 3x/day). My favorite spell was a Scultped Glitterdust. First, because it hit nearly everybody, all the time. Second, because while it didn't do any actual damage, it defeated the encounter (nearly always).

A blinded creature can only move at half speed, takes -2 to all attacks, cannot make AoOs, is denied their Dex bonus, and must make a Listen check to determine the square that you are in. Quite simply, you can walk away from this encounter now, or bring out the archers (preferably rogues) to mercilessly slay them. Note that this spell works on anything that can't make a Will save.

[JonSetanta]

OK... wow. I'll keep that in mind for the Feybook, as fairly recently I was going to give out Glitterdust to Sprites as an early 3/day or at-will ability.
o_O

[Jacob_Orlove]

I thought everyone knew that Glitterdust and Web were the best 2nd level attack spells in core (and better than most of the non-core options, too).

You might want to review:
http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewth ... ead=815[br]

[JonSetanta]

That's the thread that lured me here, the one on Save or Dies.
I was very intrigued. Still am, really.