The Gaming Den

By the time Bullettes show up, any idiot can beat them by flying and pelting them. Some monsters are too stupid or simply incapable of dealing with PC's of a certain level; a monster of high CR needs to be able to fly, or at least stop the PC's from doing so. So, let's fix that.

Leader Monster
Sure, you could have Legendary Monsters or Draconic Creatures or Evolved Undead or other things be leaders among their kind, but really, there should be a monster among all groups that could be in charge. This template makes that monster.

Size and Type: Monster gains the (awesome) subtype. Do not recalculate hit points, saves, or CR.

Movement: If the base creature can not fly or burrow, it gains a fly speed equal to its land speed (good manoeuverability). If it can already fly, its manoeuverability is increased one step. If it already has perfect manoeuverability, it instead gains 20 ft to its fly speed. If the creature has a burrow speed, it gains the ability to Earth Glide (as the Xorn ability of the same name, page 260 of the Monster Manual) and its burrow speed is increased by thirty feet.

Ability Scores: A Leader Monster who's base race has an Intelligence of 5 or less has their Intelligence score set to 8; otherwise, they gain +2 to Intelligence. A Leader Monster also has +2 Charisma.

Special Qualities:
Command (Su): A Leader Monster can command other creatures of its race as per Dominate Monster. If the creature has an Intelligence score of 2 or lower (or is non-intelligent), no save is allowed. This command lasts as long as the Leader Monster wishes; however, if the creature has an Intelligence score of 3 or higher, it is allowed another save every minute. If the Leader Monster is killed, all commanded creatures are released. This ability affects even creatures normally immune to mind-affecting abilities.

Bring Up (Su): A Leader Monster whose base race has no fly speed or burrow speed can grant other creatures of its race the ability to fly as per its own flying with average manoeuverability.

Special Attacks:
Bring Down (Su): A Leader Monster whose bace race has a burrow speed can stop other creatures from being able to fly. I don't know how the mechanics of this would work. Somebody else do it.

There's a rough draft. It really needs to be cleaned up, but the idea's there.

Brobdingnagian at [unixtime wrote:1178932591[/unixtime]]
Movement: If the base creature can not fly or burrow, it gains a fly speed equal to its land speed (good manoeuverability). If it can already fly, its manoeuverability is increased one step. If it already has perfect manoeuverability, it instead gains 20 ft to its fly speed. If the creature has a burrow speed, it gains 30 ft to its burrow speed.

I'd change it to getting either burrow (or earth glide) and tremor sense OR flight.

Then instead of 'bring 'em down', I'd give a fat bonus to jump checks and grapples vs. creatures which aren't touching the ground. Maybe Improved Grab too. This basically makes any non-flying creature into a bulette, which is the ultimate non-flying anti-flight creature without ranged attacks.

Do you realise how hard it is to make a high jump? The DC for eight feet is 32. The DC for sixteen feet is 64. And that's with running starts. Doubled from standing.

It doesn't take much to get 50 feet in the air, and jumping that high is real difficult at DC 200. The idea sounds nice (and, I admit, would be much cleaner) but isn't plausible without either that D-Monk ability (divide jump DC's by five - DC 40 for 50 feet) and a massive bonus to jumping. It's just as easy to get to 100 feet, it just takes longer and the DC for that with the Monk ability is 80. That's a very unreasonable DC below 20th level. Unless, of course, we cheese the monster with a shit-load of +10 skill gear (Wish Economy = Free) and make it all different types (competence, insight, divine, DM, cheese).

So, yeah. Though, giving them Earth Glide would be more effective... I think I'll switch it to that.

Brobdingnagian at [unixtime wrote:1178945341[/unixtime]]Do you realise how hard it is to make a high jump? The DC for eight feet is 32. The DC for sixteen feet is 64. And that's with running starts. Doubled from standing.

It doesn't take much to get 50 feet in the air, and jumping that high is real difficult at DC 200. The idea sounds nice (and, I admit, would be much cleaner) but isn't plausible without either that D-Monk ability (divide jump DC's by five - DC 40 for 50 feet) and a massive bonus to jumping. It's just as easy to get to 100 feet, it just takes longer and the DC for that with the Monk ability is 80. That's a very unreasonable DC below 20th level. Unless, of course, we cheese the monster with a shit-load of +10 skill gear (Wish Economy = Free) and make it all different types (competence, insight, divine, DM, cheese).

So, yeah. Though, giving them Earth Glide would be more effective... I think I'll switch it to that.

So give them a +500 bonus to Jump checks and the monk ability. You can do that, you know. Templates are made of "arbitrarium"

I'd call it good once you can jump ~100'. That's the first range increment of a longbow, and beyond that you're really just running away from a burrowing creature (considering that you can't hit it while it's underground.

I want this thing to at least look sensible. Failing a clean, simple way to make the Bring Down ability work, I'll concede to assign it ridiculously ludicrous jumping. But I want some suggestions to make it work without doing so first.

The ability to drop someone's fly speed to 0 and lower their maneuverability at least two categories maybe?

I like the jumping idea better though.

Another thing to note: There's rules for jumping. If your jumping distance exceeds your base land speed, it's considered a double move. If it exceeds twice your base land speed, you have to wait until finishing the jump.

A creature with a base land speed of 30 would take two turns just to reach someone 100ft in the air by jumping, and they can just go further up.

Brobdingnagian at [unixtime wrote:1179086306[/unixtime]]Another thing to note: There's rules for jumping. If your jumping distance exceeds your base land speed, it's considered a double move. If it exceeds twice your base land speed, you have to wait until finishing the jump.

A creature with a base land speed of 30 would take two turns just to reach someone 100ft in the air by jumping, and they can just go further up.

Ok, here's what you do: You bypass the rules for Jump and flight completely. Give them an ability called 'leaping charge.' It allows them to charge up to 100' in any direction, including through the ground and non-creature obstacles if they can burrow. If they charge into the air, they fall back to the ground at the end of their turn.

They take falling damage unless they land on a creature, which they can do either by positioning the fall right or making a successful grapple check. In that case the creature fallen on takes the damage.


On the other had, you could also use burrowing creatures purely in situations which favor them (choke points and areas without mobility for flyers), which is what the creatures would be doing normally.

Aww, but it's so much more fun to nullify flight.

Brobdingnagian at [unixtime wrote:1178932591[/unixtime]]
Size and Type: Monster gains the (awesome) subtype. Do not recalculate hit points, saves, or CR.

What's the awesome subtype?

It's a creature were you either must be extremely specialized or very well prepared to fight. Essentially under CRed. Dragons from the MM are an example of this.

Brobdingnagian at [unixtime wrote:1179132160[/unixtime]]Aww, but it's so much more fun to nullify flight.

It really depends on the creature. Maybe you should just give a set of rounding-out abilities, of which the leader gets a certain number.

'Magnetic attraction'/'Extreme gravity aura'/'Bring them down' will make sense for some creatures, 'Leaping charge' will make sense for others, a ranged attack or flight for the rest.

Hmm...

"Gaze Attack with a range of how far the monster can see; flying creatures must make a save (DC = 10 + 1/2 monster's HD + Monster's highest stat modifier) or fall. Creatures that fail to save against this attack can not fly (magically or otherwise) for 10 minutes or until the Leader Monster dies, whichever comes first."

Wow, that's actually cleaner than I thought it would be. Any suggestions on what type of save it should be?

We could argue either way.

INT and STR forces REF
WIS and DEX forces WILL
CHA and CON forces FORT

Avert your eyes!

Catharz at [unixtime wrote:1179427507[/unixtime]]Avert your eyes!

Yeah, I wouldn't use a gaze attack, that'd be rather odd that people can just close their eyes and be able to fly normally.

It's a ranged touch attack.

Call it....

Hatred of the cheap flying gits

or

Hatred of the flying

But what would the range be? It'd have to be able to keep up with Long Range spells, so 400 feet + 40 per HD? Or +CR?

Yes, with a range of long, caster lvl = HD + 3.

Now the question is what type of action it would be. Certainly couldn't be a free action. Swift or immediate? Maybe a move-equivelant? I'd like to make it a standard action, but that would leave the creature unable to attack something it just dropped.

Make it an attack action.

"The creature may substitute any of its attacks on its turn to unleash its Hatred for the Flying ability."

How about make their melee attacks actually 'ranged' attacks instead? or give the creature a potent ranged attack if it lacks one. Flying is certainly less wonderful if it means you're vulnerable.

So, what? The hydra spits its teeth two hundred feet up at you?

Somehow, I don't see it.

Or it could hork up a sticky/flaming/L-nitro loogey.

PC Gargoyle: "I fly up to the ceiling of the cavern and cock my X-bow of Hydra Slaying (tm)!"
DM: "Three of the hydra's heads turn and sneeze in your general direction. Make three REF saves."
PCG fails one
DM: "One of the blobs of phlegm envelopes you. You fall to the ground, entangled in a mass boogers. Your legs and arms still work, but your wings are weighed down by the mass. You loose the ability to fly."

Ouch. Debilitating and gross. I like it.

Still, that fits in with the idea of a ranged touch attack rather than the ranged attack that Tarl suggested. So.

Ranged touch attack, attack action, make a save depending on the stat the DC is based off of, fall your ass to the ground when you fail, and have some kind of arbitrary visual description as to why it happens.

Sounds good. It'll take me a while to get the wording on it right, so give me a day or so.