The Gaming Den

So I've been mulling something over since I got out of class today.

I'm wondering how a parry mechanic would work out in 3.5 rules. I'm imagining something like sacrificing attacks (or AoO's) in an attempt to block the opponent's attacks on an opposed attack roll. The attempt declared before the attack rolls are made, attacker rolls his attacks first, and then the defender rolls to see if he beats them.

Now I'm just wondering what happens after the parry. The possibilities for a failed parry are:

1) You beat my parry! I'm open and take a hit!
2) You beat my parry! Now see if you beat my +4 Full Plate and Amulet of Natural Armor and Ring of Deflection, bitch!

And the possibilities for a successful parry are:

1) Have at thee, you cur! I have nullified your attack!
2) Have at thee, you cur! I have nullified your attack! You are now open, and I take an AoO to deliver a riposte which you can't attempt to parry.

My question is: why? What is it you're trying to accomplish with this?

Ah. You asked the right question.

And the answer is: This has been in my head since about 11 this morning. It's 8:30 now. That's a long time to have something stuck in your head.

So I whipped up some rules, and I'm putting it up here so I can 1) See how it goes over 2) Experiment with alternate forms of melee defense rather than passive AC in preparation for the hack-and-slash game it looks like I'm going to be running 3) Get it out of my damn head.

Maxus, it's an issue I've pondered since AD&D.

Back then, it was a concept mostly rejected by friends on the grounds that "It's just too complex, we don't need it" and then they go on to play Druid, Cleric, or Mage and wipe a dungeon on their ass like it was tissue paper.

With post-highschool friends we put it in as a houserule that you can exchange any number of your attacks for each round as interrupting "opposed attack rolls"; if successful defensive roll is made against the incoming attack, the ranged or melee attack (of any kind, mundane or magic) is canceled.
AC is the frontline defense; you would then decide to make Parry or not after the attack roll is finalized and would hit you normally, but you may respond before damage is rolled.
You must not be flatfooted and for each attack you exchange you may make one less in the round. Using 2 handed weapons provided some bonus (like +2 or +4) to these Parry checks, since 2 weapon warriors have more checks.

In 3.5 terms, one may exchange an attack for a Parry as an Immediate action for as many attacks as you have in your own turn.
Doing this more than once in a round restricts you as if you made a full attack.

In your terms, a failed Parry means "open and take a hit" since it would have hit you anyway. It already bypassed AC, but the Parry gives a second chance for a cost.

Yeah, I thought about the effect about whether you'd parry before or after the attacker rolls the attack rolls.

And decided that without the Edge/A defense-focused feat, you'd have to decide whether you're going to parry before you see your opponent's rolls. With the Edge/the feat, you get to see the rolls first.

Active Defense [combat]
Ah ha!
Benefit: If an opponent meets or exceeds your Armour Class on a melee attack's roll, you may, at the cost of an Attack of Opportunity, preform a Parry Roll. To roll a parry, roll a d20 and add bonuses as per an Attack Roll. If you meet or exceed your opponent's Attack roll, their attack is negated. You may not parry ranged attacks of any kind, although you can parry melee Touch Attacks.
+1: If you successfully parry an opponent, you may make a melee Attack of Opportunity against the parried opponent if he/she is in melee range.
+6: You may parry projectiles thrown or shot at you. You may add your Deflection Bonus to your Parry Roll.
+11: You may parry ranged Touch Attacks. You may add your Dodge Bonus to your Parry Roll.
+16: You may Parry Magic, as per the Samurai class from Races of War, as an Extraordinary Ability using a Parry Roll in the Attack of Opportunity. You may add your Shield Bonus to your Parry Roll.

NoDot wrote:Active Defense [combat]
Ah ha!
Benefit: If an opponent meets or exceeds your Armour Class on a melee attack's roll, you may, at the cost of an Attack of Opportunity, preform a Parry Roll. To roll a parry, roll a d20 and add bonuses as per an Attack Roll. If you meet or exceed your opponent's Attack roll, their attack is negated. You may not parry ranged attacks of any kind, although you can parry melee Touch Attacks.
+1: If you successfully parry an opponent, you may make a melee Attack of Opportunity against the parried opponent if he/she is in melee range.
+6: You may parry projectiles thrown or shot at you. You may add your Deflection Bonus to your Parry Roll.
+11: You may parry ranged Touch Attacks. You may add your Dodge Bonus to your Parry Roll.
+16: You may Parry Magic, as per the Samurai class from Races of War, as an Extraordinary Ability using a Parry Roll in the Attack of Opportunity. You may add your Shield Bonus to your Parry Roll.

Sweeet.

If you get Horde Breaker, then you just might be able to go around without any armor on, but I would be reluctant to be the first to try it.

Parry mechanics were in 2e. It didn't really work out.

In general, it leads to more time spent on every character's turn and longer combats as both individual turns take longer and people take less damage per turn..

K wrote:Parry mechanics were in 2e. It didn't really work out.

In general, it leads to more time spent on every character's turn and longer combats as both individual turns take longer and people take less damage per turn..

Considering the number of enemies the three party members are going to be wading through...

That might be a very good thing indeed. And if it turns out they don't like it, I can scrap it and they can get a feat back (if they used one on it in the first place).

(Oh, and related to weird mechanics but not deserving its own thread, I worked out that Drizzt's abilities are pretty fairly represented by having him be a Fighter 9/Barbarian 6/Ranger 3. I assume in the first three levels of Tome Ranger have stuff like Track and Wild Empathy and Rapid Shot. I have reached new levels of nerdery going through the RoW classes to compare the abilities in the classes to what he does in the books.)

I wouldn't give out a class feature as a feat benefit. Kinda screws members of that class.

Draco_Argentum wrote:I wouldn't give out a class feature as a feat benefit. Kinda screws members of that class.

Considering the Samurai gets Parry Magic at level 8 and Active Defense grants it as the +16 ability...

I'd say the Samurai's role is quite safe.

Draco_Argentum wrote:I wouldn't give out a class feature as a feat benefit. Kinda screws members of that class.

While I happen to agree with Maxus-who forgot to mention the other bonuses you get to the Parry Roll-that sort of thing does worry me.

K wrote:Parry mechanics were in 2e. It didn't really work out.

In general, it leads to more time spent on every character's turn and longer combats as both individual turns take longer and people take less damage per turn..

Aha! So that wasn't just a strange misplaced false memory or something I made up, or both.

Its not the role thats a problem or the order. Its that you can select two things and not get them both at full effect. Since a samurai is thematically going to parry things I'd say the feat should be good for them.

Don't forget the Rifts/Palladium system for the drawbacks of the automatic parry/dodge concept. Its a different form of padded sumo, but its a problem.

In a discussion with some guys working on a game some years back, they posited the idea that more than 2 rolls to resolve an action was automatically a bad thing. I argued at the time, but it tends to be true. Combat becomes really, really, clunky when there are rolls to hit, parry, damage and you have to worry about DR and a horde of associated random bonuses to all of the above. Its one of the reasons I hate SR. You should just factor in some sort of bonus to the 'defense' score and deal with the flavor.