The Gaming Den

(For those Brilliant Gameologist members, I apologize, as this is cross-posted.)

On one hand, I like that ToB gave options to fighters. On the other hand, I don't like that it was an additional system that added a load of complexity to the game. What I do like, however, is the sort-of ToB things we got with feats like Shock Trooper--not the broken, but rather the combat options. However, a lot of those feats--such as the lame monk ones--were under-powered and boring.

So here's what Ima be thinkin':

What if there were a group of feats that gave a stance, a reflexive action (or whatever they're called in ToB), and another ability, all as one package? (Maybe a few more things, too, if that would spice the game up.) This would help combine the variety that ToB gives while limiting the complexity for new players.

As an example...

Artful Dodger
Your name is Jack Nimble, middle name B. You can dodge, dip, duck, dive, and dodge with the best of them.

Fast Feet (Stance): You gain a +2 dodge bonus to AC.

Duck and Cover (Reflexive Action): Once per encounter, you can reroll a failed Reflex save. If your rerolled save succeeds, you can move up to 10' in any direction without provoking attacks of opportunity.

Cheap Shot (Attack): As a standard action, you may make an attack with a +2 bonus against an opponent denied his Dexterity bonus to AC. If the attack hits, you do additional damage equal to 2d6 + your Dexterity bonus (if any).*

*I'm thinking a recharge mechanic similar to the one in 4e--roll a d6, power recharges on a 6 or something--would be a good way to do this.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

Go read the feats in Races of War (look in the sticky of the tome threads)

Why even have a recharge at all? You are already burning actions just to get the benefits there is no point in making it so limited.

Honestly I don't really see what's so hard about ToB for new players to understand. ToB is basically the 4E principle, and most people actually find that easier to grasp than standard 3E combat stuff, because they're all segregated actions.

Well, having a them be recharge rather than at-will means you can have powers which are stronger than doing a normal attack sequence. For that matter, it means you can have powers which are stronger than other powers, without rendering them obsolete.

I don't know if "recharge on 6" would work in 3E's shorter fights though. What's wrong with Warblade-style recharging?

Ice9 wrote: I don't know if "recharge on 6" would work in 3E's shorter fights though. What's wrong with Warblade-style recharging?

Recharge is a pretty stupid mechanic anyway. It's seriously just a way that the 4E designers came up with to simulate the Final fantasy effect where bosses toss powerful attacks intermittently with weaker ones, and recharge randomizes that.

The problem is that recharge isn't tactical, it's just an ability based on luck, and I don't really see the point. Warblade recharge is actually pretty nice because it makes you choose between a standard attack or a maneuver, and that's actually a tactical choice instead of just a no brainer that comes out of recharge.

The idea is to get away from 4E trivial maneuver choice where you can just pick stuff at random and pretty much not lose much. The main choice in 4E is determining if you're fighting a minion or a real monster. After that, most of the tactics seem moot. You want real tactical choices, I also like the idea of abilities that take time to charge, similar to the Tome Assassin's death attack. Choices like that are actually meaningful.

One thing that'd also be pretty nice is an ability that only works once a special precondition was met. Something like "enemy must have been threatened by you for 2 rounds" or a "you must be bloodied" style limit break. Tome of Battle was pretty good, but it could use some improvement. Mostly in the sense that it needs more options, but more limitations attached to them, as ToB suffers from a lot of the 4E problem where you just blow your uber attacks in round 1 and there's no reason not to. At least ToB lets you recharge, but I'd still like some chargeable combos.

I'll have to look at warblade rechargification.

Anyway, Leress, the reason that I don't want them to be usable every round is because I don't think that they should take the place of a standard attack.

Then make them not usable every round?

You can't charge every round unless someone lines up the baddies for you. You probably can find someone to ride-by attack, but...

...I don't want to shuffle cards. So I don't have, and won't use, ToB.

-Crissa

Psychic Robot wrote:I'll have to look at warblade rechargification.

It works like 4E encounter powers, only if you make a standard basic attack (no maneuver), then you recharge all your maneuvers.

Interesting.

Crissa wrote:Then make them not usable every round?

You can't charge every round unless someone lines up the baddies for you. You probably can find someone to ride-by attack, but...

...I don't want to shuffle cards. So I don't have, and won't use, ToB.

-Crissa

...Except for the fact that only one ToB class actually uses random recharges (Crusader), which makes THAT class a pain. Swordsage and Warblade? Ready crap, use it, then recover them when desired. Just requires you to remember which ones you've used, which is hardly difficult for a D&D player.

Warblade and Swordsage manuevers are no harder to track than spells for any caster. Warblade is easier, in fact, because they have a fairly small number to keep track of, and if you ever forget which ones you have left, you can just attack normally and recharge them.

Ice9 wrote:Warblade and Swordsage manuevers are no harder to track than spells for any caster. Warblade is easier, in fact, because they have a fairly small number to keep track of, and if you ever forget which ones you have left, you can just attack normally and recharge them.

Yeah, definitely. Because at most your memory has to go back to the beginning of the encounter. For a caster, your memory may well have to go back to the beginning of the last rest period, which may well be the beginning of the adventure that happened two sessions back. Also, unlike spells, you can't have duplicate maneuvers. So if you remember that you used up your mountain hammer, then it's gone. You don't have to worry that you may have used only 2 out of 3 of your magic missiles.