Dnd 4e becomes even more like MTG

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
SphereOfFeetMan
Knight-Baron
Posts: 562
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Dnd 4e becomes even more like MTG

Post by SphereOfFeetMan »

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20081021

Corresponding Enworld thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rp ... -sold.html
D&D Miniatures Changes Announcement wrote:We have received a tremendous amount of feedback from fans regarding the D&D Miniatures line, and have made some exciting changes for 2009. Here’s what’s coming to a shelf near you!

Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures -- Player’s Handbook Heroes
More than anything else, D&D players have been asking us for more PC (player character) minis. The D&D Heroes line features high-quality miniatures representing iconic player character races and classes described in the Player’s Handbook and Player’s Handbook 2 core rulebooks. Now players will be able to find the miniature that best represents their PC, and Dungeon Masters can use these figures to represent non-player characters in their adventures.

Launching in Spring 2009, the first D&D Heroes series features six different packs (18 figures total):

Martial Heroes 1
Martial Heroes 2
Arcane Heroes 1
Arcane Heroes 2
Divine Heroes 1
Primal Heroes 1
Each package contains 3 PC minis: 2 males and 1 female, and 3 unique power cards featuring brand new class powers. All three of the figures in the package will be visible so you’ll know exactly which pack to pick for your game.

The D&D Heroes will be refreshed regularly in order to continue to deliver new PC options to players. There are two series scheduled for 2009 and three scheduled for 2010. MSRP $10.99.
Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures -- Monster Manual
Also new to the 2009 lineup are Monster Manual themed releases. These sets are designed to be what every Dungeon Master (or D&D enthusiast) needs to create riveting adventures and exciting encounters at all levels of play.

Releasing in Spring 2009, the first D&D Monsters set is called Monster Manual: Dangerous Delves. This will be a 40-miniature set containing both medium and large sized figures. Each semi-randomized “booster” box contains 5 minis: 1 visible figure, 1 rare figure, 1 uncommon figure and 2 common figures, as well as full-color D&D Dungeon Delve stat cards for each miniature. MSRP $14.99.

Upon the release of D&D Monsters and D&D Heroes, we will no longer package the D&D Miniatures line in its current configuration (fully randomized booster packs and huge packs). This means that November’s set -- D&D Miniatures: Demonweb -- will be the final release sold in fully randomized booster packs.
Emphasis mine.

I've always hated CCG's with a passion. They induce people, especially children, to pay hundreds of dollars, or more, on game rules which are continuously invalidated and re-issued to create more profit. I've personally known people who have spent thousands of dollars on these transitory cardboard rules. The effects of randomization and "rare" cards also fuel my hatred of CCG's.

That's some of the reason why I play Dnd 3.0. Most of the problems in CCG's are not present in a rulebook based game. Dnd 3.0 is a constant ruleset which is only altered based upon houserules agreed to by the group. Nobody is penalized for not owning a particular book (we share), and the playing field is level.

Now there is this new 4e minis line featuring "...3 unique power cards featuring brand new class powers." Ugh. Remember the bad times in 3.x when people bought a particular book, not because they wanted the entire book, but because it had that one broken ability that the player wanted? Now in 4e, players will be buying miniature packs to get that one unique power card that completes their character build.

In the months and years to come, it seems likely this conversation will occur on a Dnd messageboard:
New player: "Hello everyone. I'm a new Dnd player and I'm playing a new game level 12. I'm a Druid. What powers should I take?"
Old forumer: "You want powers X, Y, and Z. Those let you win the game."
New player: "Okay...I found powers X and Y. I couldn't find power Z in the book though..."
Old forumer: "Noob. That power comes in the Primal Heroes mini pack."
New player: "Oh. Well, I don't really want to spend money on a new miniature pack that I might not like or play for a long time..."
Old forumer: "Your loss."
Old forumer #2: "Check your PM." (Includes link to website which has a listing of all the powers on unique power cards).

Or possibly official Dnd events will require you to own the power card in order to play with it. Now we are smack right in the middle of CCG territory.

A sad and angry day for Dnd players. Thank goodness my group realized 4e was crap before it was released, and continues to play 3e right through.
Thoughts?
There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
User avatar
virgil
King
Posts: 6339
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by virgil »

I noticed how there's an almost universal approval on EN-World for it...
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
User avatar
Psychic Robot
Prince
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Post by Psychic Robot »

ENWorlders don't tolerate criticism of their God and King.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
User avatar
Josh_Kablack
King
Posts: 5318
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Online. duh

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Bah, so long as there is a website with all those "unique class powers" listed somewhere, I can't think of this as anything but a good thing. 4e really needs more class powers available.

Of course, doling them out based on randomized minis packs is a pretty sub-optimal way to distribute the rules for said powers, but it probably will generate teh revenuez.
Last edited by Josh_Kablack on Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
RandomCasualty2
Prince
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 4:22 pm

Post by RandomCasualty2 »

Yeah, I hate CCG style crap. This seems like a horrible idea for an RPG.

Of course, not like it's going to matter, because people will just end up scanning in the power cards and putting it up on the internet.

But still, way to be dicks about crap WotC. I don't see how anyone can actually think that's a good idea for an RPG.
MartinHarper
Knight-Baron
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by MartinHarper »

RandomCasualty2 wrote:People will just end up scanning in the power cards and putting it up on the internet.
They'll probably be in the d&d compendium too.
PhoneLobster
King
Posts: 6403
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by PhoneLobster »

MartinHarper wrote:They'll probably be in the d&d compendium too.
Considering WOTCs fetish for recycling material it's probably already planned to be in multiple splat books, compendiums and PHXs.

Better yet they'll say its to meet popular demand to collate the collectable powers and act like they are doing their customers a favour by selling the same shit two to three times.
Draco_Argentum
Duke
Posts: 2434
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Draco_Argentum »

Wow, this is a bag of shit.

Since noone else has jumped on it. What the fuck only one female mini?

1) Its bullshit.

2) Weren't these fucks banging on about trying to get more women to play? Good work on that one fuckbags.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13882
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

On a very slightly related note, my local GW store has started doing the mail order thing (you know, after GW globally declared they would stop doing that... then brought it back), so now I have some Necromunda (House Escher) minis on the way, to make awesome converted Sisters. And a Sister Superior of the Mordheim Sisters of Sigmar (a nun with a flail. I'll replace that with a bolter, to make her an actual nun-with-gun).

So my former complaints of "There are fuck-all female minis, aside from an army of them that all have the same angry face and ugly hairstyle"... well, the core complaints hold true, but there's a sort-of solution now.

In before WotC institute a WYSIWYG rule and people start raiding Warhammer boxes for parts to make the right minis.

As for luring girls in: they will perhaps tone down on the suggestive art (there wasn't a great deal to begin with). Maybe add some purple flying ponies that can talk. Perhaps stuff that involves shopping. You know, the usual "we don't actually know what girls are. We could pander to a stereotype though!" approach, ala the video game industry.
User avatar
Bigode
Duke
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Bigode »

Koumei wrote:As for luring girls in: they will perhaps tone down on the suggestive art (there wasn't a great deal to begin with). Maybe add some purple flying ponies that can talk. Perhaps stuff that involves shopping. You know, the usual "we don't actually know what girls are. We could pander to a stereotype though!" approach, ala the video game industry.
At that point I have to ask: what do you think would actually work? I'm sure trashing dwarves' part of it. :D
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
User avatar
Psychic Robot
Prince
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Post by Psychic Robot »

Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
RandomCasualty2
Prince
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 4:22 pm

Post by RandomCasualty2 »

Draco_Argentum wrote: Since noone else has jumped on it. What the fuck only one female mini?
I dunno a 2 to 1, male:female ratio already seems very skewed in favor of the girls given the current D&D demographic.
User avatar
Bigode
Duke
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Bigode »

RandomCasualty2 wrote:I dunno a 2 to 1, male:female ratio already seems very skewed in favor of the girls given the current D&D demographic.
I wouldn't say biased. Last I checked, a lot of men had an appreciation for them as well.
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
User avatar
JonSetanta
King
Posts: 5525
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: interbutts

Post by JonSetanta »

Bigode wrote:I wouldn't say biased. Last I checked, a lot of men had an appreciation for them as well.
I agree but "appreciation" wouldn't be the word I use to describe the...

...preference.
User avatar
Absentminded_Wizard
Duke
Posts: 1122
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by Absentminded_Wizard »

Q&A about the change to the minis

Two big highlights:

1. The powers on the cards will be listed on D&D Insider and *may* eventually be publsihed in a book.

2. They're getting rid of the skirmish rules altogether. The cynic in me wonders if this is because 4e is little more than a skirmish game already and they didn't want to be redundant.
User avatar
Bigode
Duke
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Bigode »

sigma999 wrote:I agree but "appreciation" wouldn't be the word I use to describe the...

...preference.
I don't wanna delve too deep in certain minds.
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
ckafrica
Duke
Posts: 1139
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: HCMC, Vietnam

Post by ckafrica »

I always thought the WoTC miniatures looked like shit so who really cares if aren't enough ugly female miniatures?
The internet gave a voice to the world thus gave definitive proof that the world is mostly full of idiots.
User avatar
Judging__Eagle
Prince
Posts: 4671
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Lake Ontario is in my backyard; Canada

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Yeh, if you want good looking minis, look at other companies.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.

While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
Post Reply