The Gaming Den

I thought people stopped making this argument in favor of rejecting game balance because it's stupid as hell. I guess not.

It's used ironically very often in MMO forums, which is odd, 'cause no one actually use dice there. And I doubt most of the players have seen anything but a d6.

-Crissa

Stupid arguments will always have a home in the mouths of stupid people.

Why were you accused of such?

Cool. You finally joined the club. Elitist brand shirts are on the left.

My heart goes out to you, Lago. I'm employing a system of aversion therapy to kick this nonsense out of my gaming group, but so far, it's proving tricky.

Mister_Sinister wrote:My heart goes out to you, Lago. I'm employing a system of aversion therapy to kick this nonsense out of my gaming group, but so far, it's proving tricky.

Simplest solution: Throw absolutely stock monsters at them. MM1, absolutely no changes. Not even to ditch bullshit like Alertness and Toughness. The enemy, or enemies is exactly the level of the party or lower, not even higher level despite RAW allowing for such being a rather frequent possibility... about 40% of all fights, if I recall correctly. Any real character will have no issues whatsoever. The self amputees will get slaughtered. They will whine that you are not coddling them. You point out that the enemies are basic MM stuff, of the same level or lower. Show them the bit about how 40% of enemies should be higher level, but aren't, therefore you already are coddling them and they still fail.

If they get a clue and shape up, give advice on how to be at least at par. Otherwise, you force them to own themselves. Also, the slaughter will continue until play improves.

This obviously assumes you are the DM. If you're a player... just make sure the dead weight doesn't drag you down.

^ I want to watch such a game. It would make me lawl.

Of course, as the DM, you'd have to avoid obvious rape-traps, such as the Giant Fucking Crab or the Clockwork Disjoiner.

Psychic Robot wrote:^ I want to watch such a game. It would make me lawl.

Of course, as the DM, you'd have to avoid obvious rape-traps, such as the Giant Fucking Crab or the Clockwork Disjoiner.

Clockwork Disjoiner?

Aktariel wrote:

Psychic Robot wrote:^ I want to watch such a game. It would make me lawl.

Of course, as the DM, you'd have to avoid obvious rape-traps, such as the Giant Fucking Crab or the Clockwork Disjoiner.

Clockwork Disjoiner?

CR 9 construct from the Book of Random Bullshit Numbers (MM2) that spams Game Disjunction.

Also, I have did this to a group once. Because they were like 'We suck, and we aren't even going to pretend to try, but we should auto win anyways' despite the fact that they were already getting owned by shit like a single human Barbarian 2 levels lower than any of them just using very basic Rage/Charge/PA... in other works, a gimped Krusk. Also, they were getting owned by Warrior 1s... level 5 party here. Fail.

Except they did not understand how power tiers worked, so they wanted me to just throw beatstick monsters at them instead of beatstick humans and half elves... I pointed out that would not help.

Also, they were getting owned by Warrior 1s... level 5 party here. Fail.

Oh, dear.

So I'm thinking about joining a game like this. Just to test the limits of my patience. (And how else can I get my elitist brand t-shirt?) My friend states he's a really good DM and doesn't make unfair challenges. So I inquired on the Google group about his expectations.

First off, to reflect the 'economic conditions' of the campaign setting, all characters start off with 10d6 silver pieces. Secondly, Ye Olde Magic Shoppe does not exist. Tracking down a magic item for sale requires lots of roleplayed information gathering and whatnot.

I haven't gotten an answer on what he expects for level-gaining and such, but since he assures me that we WILL find magic items he expects there to be some progression. I just wonder if we'll go too far for the game he wants to run.

Am I getting myself into something that will needlessly irritate me?

It can be done well of shitty, like everything else. We have played the last 8 sessions without the characters actually purchasing anything. They started with any nonmagical gear that they wished and one magical item at level 3. They are level 5 now (I know, a bit slow on progression) and have encountered their first shop after:
encountering a god-given quest
slaying a dragon and taking the dragon-making/slaying swrod
seeking the second sword through the underdark
being shunned and hunted by the Dark Elves
Stealing the earth-cutting sword
Destroying/caving in the drow city that treated them poorly.
Encountering and slaying a second dragon, after tricking it into helping them obtain Magic Swords numbers 3-5.

Current wealth - 2 dragon hordes (one small, one medium), 1 caved in drow city (dug up with the help of zombies and Stonecutter). They have just come into the first major 'city' (low-to-medium magic), and every non-minor item that they are trying to get will likely be a quest/challenge.

You can play a game without magic shops.

However, don't play a wizard. It is likely that your DM will enforce the "wizards only get X number of spells per level and you can't buy scrolls" brand of wizard. This is fine, it just sucks to be a wizard. I recommend Beguiler. In addition to auto-overcoming many social and sneak challenges, they have solid combat options and can use most items that you find.

SunTzuWarmaster wrote:
Current wealth - 2 dragon hordes (one small, one medium), 1 caved in drow city (dug up with the help of zombies and Stonecutter). They have just come into the first major 'city' (low-to-medium magic), and every non-minor item that they are trying to get will likely be a quest/challenge.

Based on the Saberhagen Swords? Sounds fun.

Right now my choices are scout, cleric, or paladin. Paladin just to see how he falls on the alignment problem.

If you're unsure about a DM's ability to run the game, do not be a paladin.

If the code the DM puts out for your paladin is stupid, you'll either alienate the DM and risk karmic smackdown or you'll piss off your other party members.

Yeah, but it would be fun either way.

I guess the guy just has me on edge at the possible way he could run, and that's really not fair. And entirely why I'm wondering if the better choice is to have that be a day I don't go and game. They plan on playing three Saturdays a month, so maybe that game's week will be an off night for me. I don't move to the area for another couple months, so I have time to think it over, as well as get more information.

If you're ever in doubt with what to play for D&D, always pick a class that buffs up everyone else in the party.

You become both indispensible and you avoid resentment from the other players. Unfortunately 3.5E really gave this tactic a punch in the fucking testicles by shrinking the amount of effects that are worth it to cast on your buddies. Lame to the lame.

Ah, of course, I could play a bard! XD

I take it you're refering to how the best cleric and wizards spells are personal?

I take it you're refering to how the best cleric and wizards spells are personal?

Yup. You could spread the love around a lot better before the revision, but eh. Andy Collins.

Fighters don't deserve true strike.

Seriously, being a mage and burning a level 1 spell and a standard action to make sure that the fighter hits on his next attack (failing a miss chance, mirror image, or other nonsense) is NOT BROKEN. Hell, adding his BAB to damage (Power Attack) is less good than a Magic Missile. Essentially, you have to hope for the fighter to be stabbing someone with an Arrow of Slaying to EVEN CARE.

God that is such a stupid limitation on the spell.

Does this mean I need to find a 3.0 PHB for the better spells?

I think True Strike ignores miss chances actually.

TOZ wrote:Secondly, Ye Olde Magic Shoppe does not exist. Tracking down a magic item for sale requires lots of roleplayed information

Oh noes. The horror.

I've never been a fan of Ye Aulde Magicke Shoppe, even though the DMG indicates it "should" exist. None of my fellows like 'em either, and consequently we earn our magic items the old-fashioned way: by killing their previous owners.

Seriously, unless the GM's a dick the lack of Magick Shoppes is a minor irritant (you can't pimp yourself out to the max), not a game-killer.

TOZ wrote:Am I getting myself into something that will needlessly irritate me?

The question you need to ask yourself is, are you planning to work with these people and have fun, or have fun at their expense? Because the first makes you a normal person and the second makes you a game-killing troll.

If you're going to make an honest attempt to have fun (NOT at the expense of others), share your gaming expertise, and generally be a decent guy, good for you.

On the other hand, if you're looking at this as "slumming," and plan to see how much you can bait the norms or what you can "get away with"...than you're a Bad Person. You're trying to ram your playstyle down their throats, or wreck their game because you can. No matter how much you disagree with the GM, that's a total dick move and deserves Ye Olde Folding Chair to the Head.

Only you know which you intend. Good luck.