The Gaming Den

This is my take on the truenamer, and also the bard, after a fashion, which hopefully doesn't suck. Again, idea burnout on my part means that it has a few dead levels and a scant spell list, which should hopefully be remedied soon. Thanks must go to ubernoob and Bigode, once again, and any and all ideas would be welcome.
Small edit: REALLY need ideas, unfortunately. I simply cannot write more abilities for this guy at high levels by myself, it seems.
Edit: Fixed the Words, as per-suggestions.
Edit 2: Hopefully, that should be the whole class.
Final (I hope) edit: Changed the use count on the Words ability.

The Speaker

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.

- Old children's rhyme

Hit die: d6
BAB: Poor
Saves: Fort poor, Ref poor, Will good
Class skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Perform (act, comedy, oratory, sing), Speak Language, Spellcraft
Skill points per level: 4+Int, x4 at level 1
Starting age: Complex (as wizard)
Starting gold: 4d4x10 gp (100gp)

1: Utterances (1st level), Remarks, Word of Fatigue
2: Word of Deafening
3: Utterances (2nd level), Word of Distraction
4: Word of Sickening
5: Utterances (3rd level)
6: Destroy the Mindless
7: Utterances (4th level)
8: Stern Rebuke
9: Utterances (5th level)
10: Word of Blinding
11: Utterances (6th level), Word of Petrification
12: Word of Stunning
13: Utterances (7th level), Word of Death
14: Words Will Never Hurt Me
15: Utterances (8th level)
16: A Word In Edgeways
17: Utterances (9th level)
18: Hear No Evil
19: Last Word
20: Words Never Die

Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A speaker is proficient with all simple weapons, with light armour, but not with shields.
Utterances: A speaker casts spells, termed utterances, from the speaker utterance list. Utterances are identical to spells, except that they have only verbal components. A speaker automatically knows all utterances on his list. To use an utterance, he must have a Charisma score of 10+the utterance's level, and the DCs for their utterances are 10+1/2 the speaker's character level+the speaker's Charisma modifier. They receive bonus utterances per day if they have a high Charisma, and have the same spells per day chart as the cleric, but without 0-level spells. Due to utterances' lack of somatic components, ASF does not apply to them, although they are considered arcane spells for all other purposes. A speaker's caster level is equal to his character level.
Remarks: A speaker may use any of the following as at-will SLAs with no somatic components: command, ghost sound, message, power word: weaken*, ventriloquism.
Words (Sp): Starting at 1st level, a speaker can use a group of abilities termed Words. A speaker may use all the Words he knows a combined number of times per day equal to one-half the highest number of ranks in any one Perform skill that he has. Words are considered utterances for all purposes, and are also considered to be mind-affecting compulsions. As he gains more levels, a speaker can use different Words, according to the table. The words are described below.
Destroy the Mindless (Su): Starting at 6th level, a speaker treats creatures immune to mind-affecting effects (for any reason) as having a bonus on saves against such effects equal to 10-the speaker’s character level (minimum +0) instead.
Stern Rebuke (Su): As an immediate action, a speaker of 8th level can attempt to use his words to confuse and distract an opponent taking an action. That opponent must make a Will save (DC as an utterance); if this is failed, the action is lost and any spell slots, limited ability uses or the like used to power it are expended. This ability has a range of 30ft, and is considered to be mind-affecting and language-dependent.
Words Will Never Hurt Me (Su): Starting at 14th level, a speaker may add his Charisma modifier as a resistance bonus on saves against any spell or effect with a verbal component.
A Word In Edgeways (Su): Once per day per point of Charisma modifier, a speaker of 16th level can use one of his utterances as a swift action, regardless of its normal casting time.
Hear No Evil (Su): From 18th level, a speaker is protected against all mind-affecting effects which include a verbal component.
Last Word (Su): At 19th level, even a dying speaker can ensure his words are made manifest. If he would be reduced to 0 hp or lower, he may use any utterance he has as a free action. Note that this is still a strenuous actions.
Words Never Die (Ex): At 20th level, a speaker has learned how to make himself eternal through his words. He no longer ages (bonuses from aging continue to accrue) and never dies of old age. He also gains DR 10/-.

Utterance List

Remarks: command, ghost sound, message, power word: weaken*, ventriloquism
1: animal trance, charm person, comprehend languages, magic mouth, shatter, sound burst
2: hideous laughter, shout, speak with dead, whispering wind
3: crushing despair, greater dispel magic, suggestion, tongues
4: charm monster, confusion, geas/quest, greater command, greater shout
5: contact other plane, song of discord
6: dictum, holy word, mass suggestion, word of chaos, sympathetic vibration
7: blasphemy, insanity, mass hold person
8: demand, irresistible dance, mass charm monster
9: dominate monster, mass hold monster, wail of the banshee

Words

Word of Blinding
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: See text
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature become blind, whether it can hear the Word or not. If the creature's CR is 2 points or more below your caster level, the duration is permanent; if its CR is equal to your caster level or 1 point lower, 1d4+1 minutes; if its CR is 1 or 2 points higher than your caster level, 1d4+1 rounds. Creatures whose CR is more than 2 points above your caster level are not affected.

Word of Deafening
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: See text
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature to become deafened, whether it can hear the Word or not. If the creature's CR is 2 points or more below your caster level, the duration is permanent; if its CR is equal to your caster level or 1 point lower, 1d4+1 minutes; if its CR is 1 or 2 points higher than your caster level, 1d4+1 rounds. Creatures whose CR is more than 2 points above your caster level are not affected.

Word of Death
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature to die or be destroyed, whether it can hear the Word or not. If the creature's CR is greater than your caster level, this Word has no effect.

Word of Distraction
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature to become distracted, becoming flat-footed until its next turn, whether it can hear the Word or not. If the creature's CR is greater than your caster level, this Word has no effect.

Word of Fatigue
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: See text
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature to become fatigued, whether it can hear the Word or not. If the creature's CR is 2 points or more below your caster level, the duration is 1d4+1 hours; if its CR is equal to your caster level or 1 point lower, 1d4+1 minutes; if its CR is 1 or 2 points higher than your caster level, 1d4+1 rounds. If this affects a creature that is already fatigued, it becomes exhausted for the given duration instead.

Word of Petrification
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature with to become petrified, whether it can hear the Word or not. If the creature's CR is greater than your caster level, this Word has no effect.

Word of Sickness
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: See text
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature to become sickened, whether it can hear the Word or not. If the creature's CR is 2 points or more below your caster level, the duration is 1d4+1 hours; if its CR is equal to your caster level or 1 point lower, 1d4+1 minutes; if its CR is 1 or 2 points higher than your caster level, 1d4+1 rounds.

Word of Stunning
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Close
Target: One creature
Duration: See text
Save: None
SR: Yes

You cause a single creature to become stunned, whether it can hear the Word or not.If the creature's CR is 2 points or more below your caster level, the duration is 4d4 rounds; if its CR is equal to your caster level or 1 point lower, 2d4 rounds; if its CR is 1 or 2 points higher than your caster level, 1d4 rounds.

I'm thinking that instead of using HP values for the words, use CR limits. Cleaner, really.

Words should probably be cast at whatever the highest level spell is, but allow a Will and Fort Save. The effects should be dependent on CR. Also, if you double-up, you should advance to the next category.

SunTzuWarmaster wrote:Words should probably be cast at whatever the highest level spell is, but allow a Will and Fort Save. The effects should be dependent on CR. Also, if you double-up, you should advance to the next category.

I'm totally lost on everything you just said there, except the CR dependency of effects. Could you please clarify what you meant?

OK, the class should be finished now. Any and all comments would be very welcome.

Couple of questions -

Why do creatures who are immune to mind-affecting lose their replacement save bonus against higher level speakers? I like the being able to affect them bit, but the save bonus changing seems weird and unnecessary.

What level utterance is the DC for stern rebuke based off of? Do you want to just go with half class level instead of using a reference utterance (it lines up better with the fighter's foil action that way anyway).

Looks interesting otherwise. Between a limited but useful spell list, a fair amount of no-save words, and a reflavored fighter's foil action he should have something interesting and appropriate to do at any level. Ran him through a Same Game yet?

TarkisFlux wrote:Couple of questions -

Why do creatures who are immune to mind-affecting lose their replacement save bonus against higher level speakers? I like the being able to affect them bit, but the save bonus changing seems weird and unnecessary.

What level utterance is the DC for stern rebuke based off of? Do you want to just go with half class level instead of using a reference utterance (it lines up better with the fighter's foil action that way anyway).

Looks interesting otherwise. Between a limited but useful spell list, a fair amount of no-save words, and a reflavored fighter's foil action he should have something interesting and appropriate to do at any level. Ran him through a Same Game yet?

The first is due to the sheer predominance of such things at higher levels - you honestly don't want this gimping you then. However, early on, it's flavoursome and interesting to have it work that way. It's also cloned wholesale from the psion, where it actually worked. How would you suggest I do it differently?

The second question is easy: ALL utterances have the same DC. To reference myself:

Me wrote:To use an utterance, he must have a Charisma score of 10+the utterance's level, and the DCs for their utterances are 10+1/2 the speaker's character level+the speaker's Charisma modifier.

As for the SGC, not yet, but that's because I'm not sure if my list is too restrictive or not. I'm thinking of adding a few more utility effects, but after that, will definitely run him through one.

Mister_Sinister wrote:

TarkisFlux wrote:Couple of questions -

Why do creatures who are immune to mind-affecting lose their replacement save bonus against higher level speakers? I like the being able to affect them bit, but the save bonus changing seems weird and unnecessary.

The first is due to the sheer predominance of such things at higher levels - you honestly don't want this gimping you then. However, early on, it's flavoursome and interesting to have it work that way. It's also cloned wholesale from the psion, where it actually worked. How would you suggest I do it differently?

I'd just give them a flat +4 (like you get at 6th) or +0 and be done with it. Or take both and give them a +4 from 6-9 and a +0 from 10 and up. 4 levels of slightly varied flavor seems like a small and short lived benefit. Of course, if it worked for the psion then feel free to ignore that, I'm not well versed in the psionics of 3.x (haven't played with anyone who has wanted to use it or been especially interested myself).

Mister_Sinister wrote:The second question is easy: ALL utterances have the same DC. To reference myself:

Me wrote:To use an utterance, he must have a Charisma score of 10+the utterance's level, and the DCs for their utterances are 10+1/2 the speaker's character level+the speaker's Charisma modifier.

I totally missed that part or just read over it because I thought it was the same thing I've seen time and again. Off hand, I can't think of another caster who casts like that. It certainly makes their low level slots worth something... I just don't know if that's a good thing or not. Since most of the list is filled with no-save it's probably fine, but I'll be kicking that around for a while.

My psion has nothing to do with psionics, for the record.

As for the second part, all the casters I have made work this way, and Frank has actually stated that sliding DCs based on spell levels are crazy-stupid, since it gives you a divergence of saves on effects which is up to 8 points large, which fucks the RNG sideways. Hence, I'm using this much more fair metric.

Oh, you meant that psion. Sorry, sorta forgot he was out there... my general tendency to ignore that whole add-on subsystem and anything named similarly (even if unrelated apparently) seems to have failed me.

Got a link to Frank's remarks on the subject? I agree with the assessment but not the solution (not yet anyway, needs more thinkin on), and would like to see it in context to see if there's anything more to it.

Well, it's ok, I don't blame you on the psion thing.

Frank's ideas mostly came from this here thread. Specifically:

FrankTrollman wrote:

Murtak wrote:- The autoscaling DC seems rather powerful, compared to the non-scaling DCs of other casters.

As Neeek pointed out, the save DC at 7th level of your two new 4th level spell equivalents is only 13 + Charisma Modifier. At 8th level, it gets to 14 + Stat Modifier, just like the Wizard's spells were at 7th level. At Epic it pulls ahead, but Epic doesn't work, and I just don't care.

FrankTrollman wrote:

Murtak, again wrote:On autoscaling - warlock should have 9th level "spells" just as wizards, clerics and druids do. But they get to use their level 9 DCs for everything, while the other casters will be slinging some spells with lower DCs too.

Druid and Wizard save DCs already work this way at high level though. When a Druid turns into a Medusa, she uses a save DC of 10 + 1/2 her hit dice + her Charisma Modifier.

The fact that Wizards have the option of casting lower level spells whose save DCs aren't scaled to their level is a flaw. Save DCs should never go up and down, it makes the game completely intractable.

If a 1st level spell can't affect your enemies, you might as well not even have it. If it can, then Wail of the Banshee is going to rip their nuts off. That means that when the DM sets up monsters, he has only options for their save bonuses that are in some way unfair. Save DCs should not vary at all, varince by 9 is almost always pushing things completely off the RNG in a d20 system. The Supernatural Ability Save DC (10 +1/2 hit dice + Ability mod) is the closest thing to a standard that D&D has. And that means that it's the only DC that has any chance at all of being even vaguely game balanced against anything.

will comment on the actual class later but I have a better quote for you.

"OH yeah? then um..... NEEENEEER NEEENER NEEENEEEER!!!!"

sorry, that's what hanging around a two year around a two-year-old all day does to you. and the the sticks and stones comment immediately conjured that comment up to my head.

Words should probably be cast at whatever the highest level spell is, but allow a Will and Fort Save. The effects should be dependent on CR. Also, if you double-up, you should advance to the next category.

I was saying that the Words should be cast "as per highest level spell." I am not clear whether because you get the level 2 Word of Deafening, if it is cast as a level 2 spell.

Words should allow a Will and Fort save. The DC for these effects is high, and you can do them often. The Will is representative of it being a sound dependent mind affecting effect. The Fort is representative of it doing Blinding/Deafening/Death effects. This makes them a sub-par option, and a good reason to use spells that reduce DCs to warm up for a Word blast.

They should scale by CR (you changed this already), because I didn't like the idea of auto-slaying a Mind Flayer because it had bad hp.

That is what I meant by the statement above.

OK, thanks for clarifying.

On the saves thing: these are based on power words. Power words, by their very nature, do not allow saves - that's actually the point.

As far as their effective level, they're supernatural abilities, so I'm not sure why it matters.

Ah, okay.

If that is the case, I would argue that they are being used a bit too often. The current limit is level+3, and I would like it around level/2, personally. This is a superficial chance, so pay no particular heed.

Would (level+3)/2 be ok, STW? I actually don't think it matters too much, but I'm willing to make that concession.

Yea, that would be much better, personally. In genera, it should cost a real resource when you use it, or it should cost nothing. The idea of having 14 blasts at level 11 is annoying. Either call it at will (every round the character is likely to spend in combat), or use another model, but this <large but limited number> isn't fun. Seven is much more tolerable.

Point taken, editing now.

How bout this for a quote,

"Axiom? Panasonic? Yours for only 50 bucks! Ill throw in pair of socks, hows that sound?"