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Avotas wrote:Unicorn Class

• Requirements: Chosen by Eachthighern or born a Unicorn. Any Good.
• BAB: +1/lvl
• Saves: Good Reflex
• Hit Die: d8
• Skills: As previous class; or 4/lvl
• Spells per day: As previous class; if no spellcasting, gains default array by Character Level, spontaneous divine caster using WIS.
• Learning Spells: As per Unicorn Spells.
• Light Armor, Simple Weapons

Abilities per level

1. Wild Empathy, Woodland Stride
2. Uncanny Dodge (or Improved Uncanny Dodge)
3. Lay on Hands
4. Evasion (or Improved Evasion)
5. Alternate Form
6. Improved Uncanny Dodge (or Slippery Mind)
7. Trackless Step
8. Improved Evasion
9. Slippery Mind
10. Timeless Body

Unicorn Spells
These spells are learned by Character Level of the most recent Unicorn level taken. They are considered spell-like abilities.
(Character Level, Spell Name, Spell Level)

1. Purify Food and Drink as lvl 0
   Neutralize Poison as lvl 1
2. Alicorn
   Alicorn
   Casting: 1 standard action
   Duration: 1hr/level
   Target: Self
   Gain a pearly horn of force, which may be wielded in hand like a short spear or worn as a horn for use as a lance. It cannot be thrown, and vanishes if disarmed. It qualifies as a silver or magic weapon, but only does 1d8+str damage (altered by size, defaults to large).
   as lvl 1
3. Animal Messenger as lvl 2
4. Magic Fang, Greater[/srd] as lvl 2
5. Geas, Lesser as lvl 3
6. Break Enchantment as lvl 3
7. Teleport as lvl 4
8. Blink as lvl 4
9. Limited Wish as lvl 5

Spells per day per Character Level: (default array From PHB rules)

1. 0x3, 1x1
2. 0x4, 1x2
3. 0x4, 1x2, 2x1
4. 0x5, 1x3, 2x2
5. 0x5, 1x3, 2x2, 3x1
6. 0x5, 1x3, 2x3, 3x2
7. 0x6, 1x4, 2x3, 3x2, 4x1
8. 0x6, 1x4, 2x3, 3x3, 4x2
9. 0x6, 1x4, 2x4, 3x3, 4x2, 5x1
10. 0x6, 1x4, 2x4, 3x3, 4x3, 5x2
11. 0x6, 1x5, 2x4, 3x4, 4x3, 5x2, 6x1
12. 0x6, 1x5, 2x4, 3x4, 4x3, 5x3, 6x2
13. 0x6, 1x5, 2x5, 3x4, 4x4, 5x3, 6x2, 7x1
14. 0x6, 1x5, 2x5, 3x4, 4x4, 5x3, 6x3, 7x2
15. 0x6, 1x5, 2x5, 3x5, 4x4, 5x4, 6x3, 7x2, 8x1
16. 0x6, 1x5, 2x5, 3x5, 4x4, 5x4, 6x3, 7x3, 8x2
17. 0x6, 1x5, 2x5, 3x5, 4x5, 5x4, 6x3, 7x3, 8x2, 9x1

...etc.

The spells and method are non-negotiable with the DM, we're looking mostly at the ability by level. Is this sufficient? His first draft gave Fast Healing and 5 DR...

-Crissa

I don't get it. Is it a prestige class or a normal class?

The Unicorn Domain doesn't act like any other domain whatsoever. If it is just learning spells at a different level then why call it a Domain? The spells gained vary between meh and insanely overpowered: Limited Wish as a 5th level spell allows you access to 6th level wizard spells at level 9 (10 if prestige class) whereas Alicorn is only useful against ethereal enemies. Teleport is probably useless to unicorns since they get Greater Teleport anyway.

In terms of ability by level, it seems a bit weak. Like the Monk, the abilities are only defensive. It doesn't seem to do anything. Timeless body doesn't really do anything, for example, and Lay on Hands is rarely as useful as just having a wand of Cure Light Wounds. Most of the rest is really nice things but... boring.

The only useful ability would be Alternate Form, and that is only so that unicorns are able to do things like the rest of the party. Oh, and possibly Wild Empathy since unicorns get +6 to it.

Just thought I'd mention this, in which I have no less than three unicorn spheres. Not sure if that's useful, but...

Parthenon wrote:I don't get it.

Of course you don't.

You're taking something I wrote and mixing it with something someone else wrote and then saying random things are good or bad. Yes, Timeless Body doesn't do anything. Lay on Hands is no better or worse than having a wand, excepting, of course, you don't need to find a damn wand in a game (I've never seen a game with one in it).

brb, spouse puking.

-Crissa

Parthenon wrote:The Unicorn Domain doesn't act like any other domain whatsoever. If it is just learning spells at a different level then why call it a Domain? The spells gained vary between meh and insanely overpowered: Limited Wish as a 5th level spell allows you access to 6th level wizard spells at level 9 (10 if prestige class) whereas Alicorn is only useful against ethereal enemies.

Yes, apparently it's insanely overpowered to get one casting of any sixth or lower spell per day at level nine if the character has no other levels, which if you use the Unicorn you're already pointed at, you don't. Mixing the Monster Manual creature with this... A CR3 critter that even with an ECL of 3 would be getting... A level appropriate spell. Odd, that!

Yes, all defensive. Hence asking for help.

-Crissa

So, what's the point of having a spell that gives you a horn if you're already a unicorn?

@CatharzGodfoot: Since its a Force horn you can hit ghosts and other ethereal creatures. Thats it.

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You're right, Limited Wish wouldn't be too soon.

I'm sorry if I appeared aggressive or stupid or whatever, but I just don't see what this would be for. My point was that it doesn't get any abilities that further the plot or help the party inside or outside of combat except for possibly:

• Wild Empathy
• Alternate Form
• Animal Messenger
• Lesser Geas (which I've never seen actually used myself)
• Break Enchantment
• Teleport
• Limited Wish

All of these are pretty situational and only need one PC to be able to do them. However, there will probably already be a Cleric/Druid and a Wizard in most parties. So, if you have a small party and the DM makes sure these things come up then it would indeed be useful.

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For example, a Unicorn Unicorn 5 would be CR 8. It's offensive capabilities are:

• The same natural weapons that it had as a basic unicorn except that the horn can hit ethereal creatures and that they get a small bonus to hit and damage.
• ummm... thats about it.

In terms of helping the party, it gets some cure spells, and a couple of utility spells. A Unicorn Unicorn 5 is not CR 8. It has some nice immunities, but otherwise is almost useless. I just don't get what the class is supposed to do inside or outside of combat.

Maybe I'm just being retarded. If you gave an example of a character if this class I would probably get what it does.

[by the way, wouldn't it make more sense for it to use Cha as it's casting stat since Unicorns have higher Cha?]

Well, I was thinking it would be used on top of a Sorcerer, Paladin, or Rogue, third level...

And while you may have a Cleric, Druid, or Wizard in the party, it doesn't mean they'll have these spells. It gets two spells at each spell level, which is half of what a wizard gets, but can't learn more, since they're supposed to be spell-like, not ya know, real spells. Teleport seems a bit better than the base teleport that a Unicorn gets. (I threw in the 'or a unicorn' as a bit of fluff since it's supposed to kinda replace what a unicorn can do).

Should I ask for sneak attack or something?

-Crissa

I think you should abandon the project. You don't have to be a unicorn in any particular game. And if you're in a game where for whatever reason playing Belasarus is non-viable you're being cruel to the rest of the people at the table by going forward with it.

If you layer it on top of something like "Cleric" it's already grotesquely overpowered, and if you layer it on pretty much anything else it sucks beyond belief. It's basically a Paladineque Mystic Theurge. Which means it's over the top if you are coming in as a full caster and just as shitty as every other Mystic Theurge if you aren't.

It's not salvageable. There's no universal rubric for giving out full casting and a heap of defensive abilities, because that's fucking insane. But if you've pissed away enough levels on being a horse it's not even enough. What you actually seem to want is one of those special prestige classes I experimented with way back in the day that transformed some crackass monster into a playable character in a few levels. I stopped doing that, because it was way too much trouble and it didn't even work if people left the very narrow rails created by the classes.

The concept was detailed Back in 2003 - and t was interesting. But too much work for too little gain. I wouldn't do it again, and I suggest you don't either. This is not a path that can succeed.

-Username17

Okay, I'll just go back to not bothering to ask for help, since none of that was helpful.

If you put it atop a Cleric, you're stuck with whatever spells you did know, though you have more spells per day and a domain power you get to keep (which keeps giving you spells, since you already knew them but couldn't cast them...) If you put it atop the rogue, you get alot of skills, but really poor offensive abilities. If you put it atop a horse or unicorn, it duplicates a bit, but presumably if you were playing a horse or unicorn you already had a way to deal with not having hands (or changing into a form that did).

And of course it won't get thrown away since Frank said it was terrible, because the DM already wrote it and said 'let's go with this'. And honestly, it's better than what he wanted to do.

-Crissa

I do want to try and help. I think Frank is right about this class not really working, but I think its because its trying to be too wide a class. If you ignore the 'or Unicorn' then it could probably work for just a Paladin or Rogue as a Unicorn themed adventurer with various useful SLAs.

Then, make the spells into straight SLAs rather than pissing about with SLA slots. At that point, the Druid abilities could work well. You might want a couple more abilities though.

Maybe something like:

Unicorn
Prerequisites:

• Chosen by Eachthighern
• Good alignment
• +2d6 Sneak Attack OR Aura of Courage

Hit Dice: d8
Skills per level: 4 + Int/level
Class Skills: Choose a previous class; all of those as well as Knowledge(Nature) and Handle Animal

Level	Special	SLAs
1	Wild Empathy, Woodland Stride, Previous Class Feature	Purify Food and Drink 3/day, Cure Moderate Wounds 3/day, Entangle 2/day
2	Uncanny Dodge, Unicorn Mount	Alicorn 1/day, Neutralize Poison 1/day
3	Lay on Hands, Smiting Strike	Animal Messenger 2/day
4	Evasion	Greater Magic Fang 1/day, Tree Stride 1/day
5	Alternate Form	Lesser Geas 1/Week, Summon Natures Ally IV (Unicorn only) 1/day
6	Improved Uncanny Dodge, Smiting Strike	Break Enchantment 1/day
7	Trackless Step	Teleport 2/day
8	Improved Evasion	Blink 2/day, Heal 2/day
9	Slippery Mind, Smiting Strike	Limited Wish 2/Week
10	Timeless Body	Holy Word 1/day

SLAs: All SLAs have a CL of the characters hit dice and a saving throw of 10 + 1/2HD + Cha.
Previous Class Feature: If the character has three levels of Paladin then their Smite Evil increases as if their Paladin level was the sum of Paladin and Unicorn levels. If the character has three levels of Rogue then their Sneak Attack increases as if their Rogue level was the sum of Rogue and Unicorn levels.
Unicorn Mount: If the character has three levels of Paladin then they get the special mount ability of the Paladin. Whether they already have the ability or gain it now, their mount is a unicorn and gains abilities as if the character was a paladin of the sum of their Unicorn and Paladin levels minus 1.
Smiting Strike: If the character has levels in Paladin then they get another Smite Evil per day whenever they get this ability. If they have Sneak Attack then whenever they would perform a sneak attack on an evil creature then they do 1 point of holy damage per sneak attack die. This increases by 1 each time they gain this ability. This damage is done even if the evil creature they attack is immune to sneak attack.

So if the character was a Paladin then they become a Nature themed Paladin with SLAs instead of spellcasting, better defences and a unicorn mount. If in at level 3 then they lose Turn Undead and spellcasting. Probably a bit better than a straight Paladin.
If the character was a rogue then they still have Sneak Attack and great defences, but they also get some SLAs and get better against evil opponents. They do however lose out on skill points and the Special Ability. Again, probably about as good or better than a straight Rogue.

Is that at all useful?

Thanks, Parth, forwarded to the DM.

Wouldn't you just rather put Alternate form at level two instead of Mount?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilit ... ernateForm

What would the alternate form for this class be?

Unicorn or Human, depending on if you didn't have one or the other.

-Crissa

So you could end up with one unicorn riding on top of another unicorn? Hopefully your alternate form weighs less than average.

I am vaguely reminded of the worg PC another player wants to use in a game I'm in. I intend to strongly suggest that he recruit a goblin rider in order to get the benefits of Mounted Combat. That could have some use here as well.

I think it's really worth making two separate classes: a paladin that rides a unicorn and a unicorn that gets ridden by a paladin. If you roll the two into one, you might as well make them one character in the same sense that a wizard and her familiar are one character. Then there's the (apparently lycanthropic) unicorn that doesn't get ridden by anyone.

And Crissa, the reason I didn't have any useful suggestions is that I had no fucking clue what the spell like abilities, improved caster level, and special spell list were doing.