Lol. (D&D 3.5 Secret Page)

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:58 pm

Some guy thinks Secret Page can't do all sorts of crazy stuff. Where was the writeup on that again?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:23 pm

It's pretty simple. It's free and you can have the "fake" page display "another spell." This is undetectable by any means, up to and including attempting to prepare said other spell. Since making the fake page is free, you're able to copy your spell book by having the "real" pages be a bunch of drawings of horses and the "fake" pages be of spells and just use it as a spell book with the fake pages showing. If you wanted to use secret page for its original intended use of hiding your spell book, you could put the real pages out while you weren't using it and then the actual spell book pages are "fake" and can't even be seen with true sight.

Also, since each casting can have its own passwords you can put multiple castings onto a single piece of parchment. Set the passwords to "page thirty four" and so on and you can have a spell book as long as you want in a picture frame.

-Username17

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:48 pm

Wow. It's a magical E-book reader.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:07 pm

Does that work for spells you don't know? Or ones that aren't even on your list?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:25 pm

Roy wrote:Does that work for spells you don't know? Or ones that aren't even on your list?

You have to learn the spells, but you can cast it instead of scribing the spells out by hand.

So you need a primary source and to make the relevant Spellcrat check. But honestly, you're a Wizard so you shouldn't be failing Spellcraft checks. You even have Read Magic if for some reason this failure was a possibility.

-Username17

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:35 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:
Roy wrote:Does that work for spells you don't know? Or ones that aren't even on your list?
You have to learn the spells, but you can cast it instead of scribing the spells out by hand.

So you need a primary source and to make the relevant Spellcrat check. But honestly, you're a Wizard so you shouldn't be failing Spellcraft checks. You even have Read Magic if for some reason this failure was a possibility.

-Username17

Ok, so the guy who claimed I got Secret Page wrong when I was arguing 90% of the best spells in the game were core only did have a point. Too bad he has since revealed himself to be a useless douchebag who never wanted a discussion in the first place by telling me not to attack him because I was attacking his ideas, then attacking me in the same breath... and attacking some more when I call him on the contradiction. So he gets no points, and I'd say this one's wrapped up.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:50 pm

That was random.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:07 pm

virgileso wrote:That was random.

*shrugs* He claimed I was wrong. I checked to see if there was any merit to that. Up until the guy turned around with the 'Hurk durk, yeah I'm insulting you while asking for a double standard, so what? Also, I'm ignoring you now' I didn't have any problem with him.

JonSetanta · Post by **JonSetanta** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:30 pm

I suppose one can't truly use Secret Page to "beat the DM", as in hide spellbooks from all-knowing NPCs, but that's probably a matter of bad-DM douchebaggery than actual setting issue.

Still, it would be cool to use the spell as some kind of reflexive trap rather than proactive.
A story retcon.

DM "The rogues ransack your camp while your party watches safely in hiding nearby. Black Mage, they come across your spellbook..."
Player "How would they know it's a spellbook? It's disguised as touhou futa. I have a Secret Page spell ready." .. of which is not actually on the book, but they do know the spell.
DM "Fine. Make a Secret Page spellcraft check DC15."
Player *rolls* "Got it."
DM "The rogues pass by your... touhou collection... in favor of shinier prizes."

I've been considering using illusions this way, as in "It's an illusion" statement coming after the opponent reacts to a spell. The user could then take advantage of an opponent's lowered guard, as well as saving a bit of resource in some way for using efficient arrangements of photons rather than actual summons, explosions, etc (regain a portion of spell energy?)
All in all, the spell is used AFTER an opponent interacts rather than DAYS BEFORE.

Alternatively, it could simply be part of the spellcraft function to write spells down. Spell not needed.

Ice9 · Post by **Ice9** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:41 am

That kind of "retroactive preparation" thing seems like a good ability for supergenius characters - either inherently from a high enough intelligence, or as a feat/power.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:17 am

Wait, do you mean some sort of Quantum Wizardry, where not even the caster knows if it's an illusion or the real spell until it's interacted with?

That's kind of cool.

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:13 pm

It'd also come in handy for ninjas.

So someone could actually do those Naruto-style fakeouts and the like where people keep going, "HA HA! It was an illusions/clone/transformation!"

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:33 am

I like the Warlock D-Door for ninja teleportation. It leaves a mirror image behind. A DM even agreed to allow a log to appear when the enemy hits the mirror image (this is a very important ability for ninjas).

Really, I'd say that Warlock is the ideal class for ninjas, as they can:
*Fly
*Tumble well (invokation)
*Blast people with deadly ninja shuriken that set people on fire/EYE BEAMS (eldritch blast)
*Make mist appear out of nowhere - even toxic mist (invokations)
*Make it dark (invokation)
*Conjure forcefields that deflect projectiles (invokation)
*Ninja Teleport (invokation)
*Summon Tentacle Rape (invokation)
*SPECTRAL PENILE SHAPE (blast shape: Eldritch Glaive)

I think I have covered every aspect of the Ninja. Maybe give them Perform (Ax) and a Rage invokation (so they can flip out and kill the whole town when someone drops a spoon). But there, you basically have a ninja.

I think they even get a disguise power in one of the books, that damages people who disbelieve it.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:02 am

Koumei wrote:I think they even get a disguise power in one of the books, that damages people who disbelieve it.

I think you confused Retributive Invisibility. Which is Greater Invis + damage when dispelled, with The Hannibal Lector Thing, where they touch someone, and that person's face falls off, and they wear it as a mask.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:26 am

Ah yes, so I was. Still, they have that ability (handy for killing people then disguising as them to enter a function, then slaughter everyone inside, as ninjas are known to do), and a bunch of other handy tricks.

So sub-par/awful as the Warlock is, it fits the ninja role pretty well.

Which has nothing to do with Secret Page or Quantum/Zen Spellcasting. Snap.

"Inside this box, I cast a spell, summoning a Hellcat. But the question is, is it an illusion or a conjuration? Until you open the box and potentially get mauled, we must assume the Hellcat is both there and not there at the same time."

TOZ · Post by **TOZ** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:47 am

Holy shit Koumei, I never thought of it that way. That'll be a fun thought to share with my group.

Anyway, interesting breakdown of Secret Page. Will be another fun trick to discuss with some of my friends.

koz · Post by **koz** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:57 am

I actually believe that the ninja is covered by several different classes, depending on what kind of ninja we are talking about.

If we are talking about the kind of ninjas that worked as assassins in Japan at some point, the rogue covers it pretty well.

If we are talking of the ninjas of martial arts legend, you're thinking of the monk.

If you're talking Narutesque ninjas, those are wizards.

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:13 am

Sorcerers are more Naruto-esque, I think. 'Cause we all know that the cooler the character is, the more bad ass he is.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:15 am

I'm thinking of Shinobi / Ninja Turtles (classic) / REAL Ultimate Power / Karakuri Ninja Girl.

koz · Post by **koz** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:36 am

NineInchNall wrote:Sorcerers are more Naruto-esque, I think. 'Cause we all know that the cooler the character is, the more bad ass he is.

The sorcerer is a mechanically sub-par class to the wizard, which means that I would not recommend it. Furthermore, pretty much ALL main characters have high Charisma by virtue of being main characters, so I don't really see that as an accurate reflection.

Plus, who says wizards can't be badasses too?

NineInchNall · Post by **NineInchNall** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:04 am

No one. It was a joke, yo.

I just can't think of a better way to poke fun at the anime bishonen cliché.

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:51 am

Mister_Sinister wrote: The sorcerer is a mechanically sub-par class to the wizard, which means that I would not recommend it. Furthermore, pretty much ALL main characters have high Charisma by virtue of being main characters, so I don't really see that as an accurate reflection.

Plus, who says wizards can't be badasses too?

Yeah I've always hated charisma as a stat in general.

Aharon · Post by **Aharon** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:42 am

Hi, first post here

Just a question about this trick: Isn't it kind of ...not well thought out to do that? Secret Page can be dispelled, and when I DM, I usually include dispels by the enemy, like Dispelling Screen and Wall of Dispel Magic (both from the Spell Compendium). I don't think this is abrasive, but it would stifle any mage using the above trick.

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:16 am

Aharon wrote:Hi, first post here

Just a question about this trick: Isn't it kind of ...not well thought out to do that? Secret Page can be dispelled, and when I DM, I usually include dispels by the enemy, like Dispelling Screen and Wall of Dispel Magic (both from the Spell Compendium). I don't think this is abrasive, but it would stifle any mage using the above trick.

They'd have to specifically aim at the exact page of a spellbook which... isn't out anyways.

Zak · Post by **Zak** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:02 pm

Aharon wrote:Hi, first post here

Just a question about this trick: Isn't it kind of ...not well thought out to do that? Secret Page can be dispelled, and when I DM, I usually include dispels by the enemy, like Dispelling Screen and Wall of Dispel Magic (both from the Spell Compendium). I don't think this is abrasive, but it would stifle any mage using the above trick.

And even if it gets dispelled, you won't care. Because, guess what?
You already made two or more copies anyway, stored inside an extradimensional space and/or a safe location.

On the plus side, this makes ER even more fun.