The Gaming Den

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:06 am**

I've touched on it before, but now I need to really vent this.

I live in Mobile, Alabama.

For the past couple of years, there's been a competition between Boeing and Northrop Grumman (working with EADS) to replace the Air Force's fleet of aerial refueling tankers.

I'm hoping for NG to win, because if they do, the tanker will be partially built and the final assembly will happen here, in Mobile, where there's plenty of room to do it (There's Brookley Field, an aerospace/industrial complex which, well, is huge. As in, the spaceship scene at the end of Close Encounters of the Third kind was filmed in a hangar there.)

And today I found a news story about how the competition is getting started again (after Boeing appealed the first decision), but NG has been awarded a maintenance contract. This makes me hopeful.

Then I glanced at the comments and got pissed about how the Pentagon was making a mistake by 'pandering' to backwoods rednecks.

Sigh.

Here's a full-on rant and I'm breaking it up into multiple posts. It's long, so you're warned.
------------------------------

How can I put it...

NO, THE STATE OF ALABAMA DOES NOT CONSIST ENTIRELY OF BOONIES, NOR IS IT COMPLETELY POPULATED BY REDNECKS.

Here, look. Here's an aerial view of Mobile.

Okay, Mobile is pretty sprawling. But it's not backwoods, by any means. Its metro area is more than 400,000 people. If you think that's backwoods, I'd be more than willing to take you on up to Conecuh county where you can see backwoods.

See, this, I think, is why Alabama as a whole is so hard-up economically, especially in relation the amount of federal funds we take in.

The rest of the country have their stereotypes that they just can't see past. I don't know how it is towards Sir Neil's neck of the woods, but it's not like that here.

Oh, and here's some interesting economic facts: Did you know that Alabama is home to several auto-manufacturing plants?

Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Hyunda, and Toyota have all opened shop in Alabama.

Mobile County is also getting a ThyssenKrupp steel mill built. ThyssenKrupp is from Germany.

Are you noticing a trend here? I am.

In fact, I know it's a trend, from people I've met from either out of state or from out of the country. The rest of the country has a stereotype about the entire state, and, well, it's become a vicious cycle.

Alabama's poor on the whole because the the rest of the country won't have anything to do with us. Why won't they have anything to do with us? Because we're Alabama. We're by definition inbred racist uneducated wife-beating hicks who have our brains burned out by the 'shine and the beer .

In fact, I's gonna go hang out with my cousin tomorrer and see if her knockers still look as good 'ez they always do. Hoooo-DOGGY!, she's mah cousin, but 'em 'ere titties are a-MIGHTY fine. Then tomorrer night I'm gonna got put on my sheets and me 'n' some buddies are gonna go hang us a negro.

Jesus, it pissed me off to see people actually believe everybody here's like that like that. And, no, it's no exaggeration. One of my cousins (I have a big extended family that I keep up with; that's one of the few stereotypes that remains true in some cases), she had a friend from up north who was working down here. When the friends parents came down to visit, they felt the need to seriously and earnestly ask, "Do people from Alabama really marry their cousins and sisters?"

I wish I were making that up.

Now, there may be some who are. But I would put them at a tiny minority. Sort of like how not many Germans are Nazis. Or how not many gothy kids worship Satan with animal sacrifice. Or like how Canadians don't actually go around saying, "Eh? This is really good, eh? How do like that, eh?"

Now, before anyone calls me out on shit like how the Black Belt is dirt-poor, I'm aware of that. I don't like it much either. The people there are so poor it's tough for them to break the cycle and stop being poor. It'd pretty much take some outside influence to move in and create jobs and bring in money to increase cash flow so education and medicine and improve...Oh, wait, Alabama, sorry. big US-based based business don't move to Alabama apart from the chains which do business everywhere (Although the new Wal-Mart just a few miles away from where I live is convenient).

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:24 am**

Now, about the Republican bias here.

I don't like Republicans. But that's directed at Congress, mostly. They're obstructing real help for this country because they don't want Obama to look good and possibly because they're being paid copious amounts to do so.

Now, the population that the Republicans like--rural people whose areas are behind the times and who still call Russia "the commies" and the like--I don't have a problem with them on issues other than politics. Why?

I've met a lot of them because of the hunting camp Dad and I went to which is up in, yes, Conecuh county. They're decent people, actually. Keep the conversation off politics and they're good company. Fun, even. They certainly know interesting facts about food and how to prepare it. They certainly go in for a good cause (give them a face to identify with and a way to personalize it and they will pitch in and help. And if you want to sell a lot of plates at a fundraiser, make sure people know the fish and the chicken are being cooked/fied by men who lovingly built their own rigs.)

So, yes, while I disagree with them and I'm waiting for time to pass and technology to spread, I don't hold them in contempt like some people do, or write them off as sub-human.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:30 am**

Side note: It's been a long time since I've been so pissed that my language skills deserted me like that.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:45 am**

The thing is, Alabama is a minor, ignorant backwater. In recent years there has been dramatic improvements, but let´s not kid ourselves: the rate of illiteeracy across the state is still 1 in 6, and there are counties where the rate is over 30%. That´s simply unacceptable in an industrialized country, and completely inexcusable in a state where less than one percent of the population is an immigrant.

Yes, it´s improving. The rate of improvement is actually kind of encouraging as it catches up with western civilization. I mean, just 76 years after the end of prohibition, Alabama legalized the production and sale of gourmet beers, allowing something worth drinking onto shelves for the first time in May of 2009. And I´ll tell you that during my own stay in Mobile Alabama there were a number of black people who were willing to look me in the eyes without fear of being "put in their place" - which was quite a refreshing change from Southern Mississippi, I do declare.

And lest we forget, Alabama isn´t even trying to become competitive in the realm of the sciences. Indeed, they´ve gone out of their way to make sure they stay near the bottom for generations to come. They´re making sure that they don´t get any accolades in in the arts, either.

Fuck, even the industry they get isn´t innovative or impressive, it´s just a bunch of connect-the-dots assembly plants designed and built elsewhere. Alabama gets factory complexes that are being designed for Chinese prison labor. Alabama has a reputation for being shitty because well, it´s kind of shitty. And it has substantial investment from the religious types to keep it shitty. And I really don´t see them losing control of the place before all the baby boomers die.

And then where will you be? It´ll be 2030 and you´ll be sitting on a whole generation of adults who think that cancer was let loose on Earth by Satan because of The Fall. I can´t wait to see the marvelous cancer research you guys start doing then. You know, when the rest of us have flying cars and you guys start doing cancer research.

-Username17

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:29 am**

FrankTrollman wrote:The thing is, Alabama is a minor, ignorant backwater. In recent years there has been dramatic improvements, but let´s not kid ourselves: the rate of illiteeracy across the state is still 1 in 6, and there are counties where the rate is over 30%. That´s simply unacceptable in an industrialized country, and completely inexcusable in a state where less than one percent of the population is an immigrant.

Yes, it´s improving. The rate of improvement is actually kind of encouraging as it catches up with western civilization. I mean, just 76 years after the end of prohibition, Alabama legalized the production and sale of gourmet beers, allowing something worth drinking onto shelves for the first time in May of 2009. And I´ll tell you that during my own stay in Mobile Alabama there were a number of black people who were willing to look me in the eyes without fear of being "put in their place" - which was quite a refreshing change from Southern Mississippi, I do declare.

And lest we forget, Alabama isn´t even trying to become competitive in the realm of the sciences. Indeed, they´ve gone out of their way to make sure they stay near the bottom for generations to come. They´re making sure that they don´t get any accolades in in the arts, either.

Fuck, even the industry they get isn´t innovative or impressive, it´s just a bunch of connect-the-dots assembly plants designed and built elsewhere. Alabama gets factory complexes that are being designed for Chinese prison labor. Alabama has a reputation for being shitty because well, it´s kind of shitty. And it has substantial investment from the religious types to keep it shitty. And I really don´t see them losing control of the place before all the baby boomers die.

And then where will you be? It´ll be 2030 and you´ll be sitting on a whole generation of adults who think that cancer was let loose on Earth by Satan because of The Fall. I can´t wait to see the marvelous cancer research you guys start doing then. You know, when the rest of us have flying cars and you guys start doing cancer research.

-Username17

Yeah, we're behind, but we're catching up.

F'rinstance, the university I attend? Med/business school. A while back it received a big chunk of change to build/fund a cancer research and treatment center, which opened back in July.

I know this is like asking water to run uphill, but cut down on the snark, man. Things aren't as bad as you saw them to be, or nearly as bad as how you describe them.

Eesh, I need to sleep.

In the vein of 'pics or it didn't happen'

http://www.southalabama.edu/mci/index.html

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:03 am**

I know what it can be like dealing with stereotype-fueled ideas about the place you live being a backwater. I can (and have had to) go off on a long rant about all the virtues and selling points of Minnesota to folks from other parts of the country (or world) but it rarely changes their minds - people think of the entire Midwest as flyover country, an empty Bible-belt wilderness of hicks and farmers. This stereotype is probably introduced by the parents of kids who live in population-dense areas, mostly on the East and West coasts, and reinforced by what they are fed by the mass media.

When I was a kid, we drove out to Long Island, New York, to visit my step-dad's family. There were a bunch of kids my age or younger, let's say ten years old or so, who were just fascinated by me and my brothers, and had all kinds of questions for us.

"Do you live in a barn? How many horses do you have? Do you milk your own cows?"

"No, we live in the city. The Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area has over a million people, you know."

"You have cities there?"

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:23 am**

No, seriously, it's exactly as bad as I am describing:

Really.

As long as 150 year old science is treated in your state as cutting edge and controversial, you're never going to be producing students who can do the research to take society forward into the next 150 years.

-Username17

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:25 am**

I went to engineering school in Indiana, and put posters up on my walls of the mountains here. There were people who didn't know that it's possible for mountains to have snow on them year-round. Their idea of skiing mountains were little hills where we frequently build suburbs.

And then I met one of my BFF's mom - from Japan. Right before she left she told us how wonderful the US was. She had imagined that it was full of people who carry guns and was entirely paved. But holy crap! We had nature and not so many gun-toters.

People are retarded. It takes a lot to get over that retardation.

I'm sorry about the negative stereotype, Maxus. Unfortunately, you're probably not going to see relief. Around here, the stereotype thrown around is the hippie - and I loathe it. But I kinda like the Italian one that my family gets lumped into.

Quite obviously, I'll have to visit Alabama.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:30 am**

Frank wrote:As long as 150 year old science is treated in your state as cutting edge and controversial, you're never going to be producing students who can do the research to take society forward into the next 150 years.

If that were true, Europe wouldn't have been able to leave the Dark Ages and head into the Enlightenment. Of course it's possible for brilliant individuals to come out of a repressive society. Less, likely, perhaps, but not impossible.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:05 pm**

Yeah, just because something is controversial doesn't mean it's not true. It just means they don't want to accept the fact that they might be wrong.

Does this hurt overall education? Yeah. Does it stop people from actually learning? No. It's ignorant, but it doesn't set them 150 years back at everything scientific for 150 years.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:27 pm**

Maj wrote:She had imagined that it was full of people who carry guns

Incidentally, this is how I imagine the US is. I'm hesitant to visit the cities there due to reservations about getting shot for asking directions.

Luckily, about the only person I want to visit there lives in Iowa.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:38 pm**

Hmm. So Maxus starts a thread specifically to complain that everyone thinks folks from Alabama are ignorant hicks. Immediately, Frank comes along and says "Well, that's because you are a bunch of ignorant hicks. Here's an article backing me up." I gotta say, kind of a dick move.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:51 pm**

Koumei wrote:
Maj wrote:She had imagined that it was full of people who carry guns
Incidentally, this is how I imagine the US is. I'm hesitant to visit the cities there due to reservations about getting shot for asking directions.

Luckily, about the only person I want to visit there lives in Iowa.

You only think that because the dangerous animals there aren't susceptible to bullets. If funnel web spiders and comb jellies and dropbears were a lot bigger, you'd be giving guns as a traditional 5 year birthday gift.

In all honesty, the problem with America isn't too much guns, it's not enough. Americans should literally be allowed to purchase and build plains, tanks, and nuclear weapons.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:48 pm**

Koumei wrote:Incidentally, this is how I imagine the US is. I'm hesitant to visit the cities there due to reservations about getting shot for asking directions.

Visit Manhattan, seriously, not only is there tough gun laws but people will actually go out of their way to help you with directions. (Get in the way and they will knock you over, but ask for directions or trip on a curb (ask my mom she often doesn’t look where she is going) and they are the nicest people on the planet.)

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:00 pm**

tzor wrote:
Koumei wrote:Incidentally, this is how I imagine the US is. I'm hesitant to visit the cities there due to reservations about getting shot for asking directions.
Visit Manhattan, seriously, not only is there tough gun laws but people will actually go out of their way to help you with directions. (Get in the way and they will knock you over, but ask for directions or trip on a curb (ask my mom she often doesn’t look where she is going) and they are the nicest people on the planet.)

Just don't visit the sewers. Alligator country.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:38 pm**

Pfft, everyone knows gators are weaksauce: they're huge, how could they possibly be a danger? Australia teaches you that the smaller the critter, the more deadly. Hence gators, lions and hippos* are nothing to worry about.

But I wouldn't be roaming the sewers anyway. Doesn't seem very touristy.

Sock Puppet: a dick move, but hilarious all the same.

*not including humans and diseases caused by mosquitoes, hippos kill more Australians every year than any other animal... and we don't even have them in this country. Enough of us seriously go to Africa to get trampled to death that it outnumbers our sharks, swimming knives, razorfish, stingrays, venomous fish (see: all), eels, scorpions, bees, wasps, hornets, centipedes, stinging trees (not animals, I know), wild dogs/cats, giant lizards, snakes, sheep, dingos, spiders, ticks, corals, whales, dolphins, coneshells, carnifexes and your mum.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:48 pm**

Is that why hippos kill more Australians every year than any Australian animal?

-Username17

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:59 pm**

The guys from Top Gear thought that the Alabama stereotypes were untrue, that they were at most gross exaggerations of reality, that people like Maxus should be believed, and so there wasn't any actual harm in doing things that the stereotype of the gun-toting redneck would have warned you off of.

That went badly for them.

Quite badly.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:08 pm**

Koumei wrote:
Maj wrote:She had imagined that it was full of people who carry guns
Incidentally, this is how I imagine the US is. I'm hesitant to visit the cities there due to reservations about getting shot for asking directions.

Luckily, about the only person I want to visit there lives in Iowa.

Fun story: my brother bought his wife a new gun when she moved out to Baltimore to take a position at Johns Hopkins. I guess her old one didn't fit in her purse? Anyway, the rate of gun ownership has a high variance by region and state.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:47 pm**

Having a couple close friends from West Virginia I get that you're railing against unfair stereotypes applied to a whole state. But being from Pittsburgh, home of the incessant yet meaningless boosterism that refuses to solve, let alone admit several fundamental municipal cultural and infrastructure problems, I can't take your there rant seriously. You're boasting about being a welfare state dependent upon the largess of part of the military industrial complex who look to be using the court system to extort taxpayer money.

Seriously, the only person from Alabama who I actually knew in any meaningful way always said that "I got my revenge against everyone back in high school - I left, but they're all still in Alabama." Coming from an actual former resident, that's pretty damnning.

F'rinstance, the university I attend? Med/business school. A while back it received a big chunk of change to build/fund a cancer research and treatment center, which opened back in July.

Oh yeah, well, some guy at the Unversity* I work for CURED POLIO ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Salk ) Sure it happened 50 some years back, but we still gotta brag about it, since despite the claims of the local booster club and G-20 sellouts, most folks here never recovered from the Reagan Recession so we ain't got much else to brag about aside from sports (other than baseball) and that guy who plays Spock and the serial killer.

* And we can't even spell university

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:00 pm**

That's what my spouse says about Oklahoma, Josh.

-Crissa

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:09 pm**

Nihlin wrote:That went badly for them.

"All across America" is apparently from Miami to New Orleans. I love Top Gear.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:16 pm**

They did admit they were on a limited time scale for the trip.

And there are far less people going from New Orleans to say, Los Angeles.

-Crissa

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:39 pm**

Koumei wrote:...a dick move, but hilarious all the same.

I suspect that Maxus wouldn't see it that way. I am of the opinion that he should be shown a little respect, at least in the thread that he started. But hey, whatever, it's not my job to evaluate anyone else's misanthropy.

Posted: **Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:52 am**

Aren't most Red States shitholes?

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