SR4A: Possession vs Materialization?

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:08 am

So I'm making a mage-type character and I've seen the advice going that Possession-type traditions are weaker than Materialization-type traditions. My question is: why? I mean, while you can just Materialize a spirit and have it start kicking ass right there and then, a Possession spirit can be ordered to take someone over Golden Army-style and then run around beating all his friends up, right? Plus, the fun of having a spirit with Movement and Levitate possess a car / sword and having it commit vehicular / regular homicide all over the place...

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:08 am

Stealing people is a service (possessing willing targets is not, but that has its own problems), while materializing to go on a rampage is not. Demonic Kamikaze runs are therefore better when you're chain summoning materialization spirits. Materialization always works, and possession requires a die roll.

A possessed dude is really bad ass. In many cases, more badass than a materialized spirit. But usually less badass than a materialized spirit and a normal dude.

Possession mage are hard core. Like, crazy hard core. They are so incredibly powerful that they are almost as powerful as materialization mages. Inhabitation Mages, by the way, are about as powerful, maybe even a little more powerful than materialization mages, depending on what you want to do.

-Username17

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:24 am

Hm hmm. Yeah, there's the whole reliability thing (die roll) and the Object Resistance (hopefully low, probably higher since you want to yoink a cybered-up sam) for having a spirit possess someone are potential stumbling blocks, and as a starting character, I can't pretend that I have infinite dice to throw at the problem.

That said, materialized spirit = action advantage, so that's also a big draw, since I think a mage's actions are best used throwing magic than being coopted into his pet's beating-up routine.

The campaign premise is apparently Indiana Jones in Shadowrun, so I doubt we'll have much use for the astral gank pack, though. I expect opposition to be largely critters and so on.

Incidentally, how do Inhabitation mages get even more badass than Materialization mages? Is it something to do with how the bodies for Inhabitation mages can become insanely tough and powerful?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:36 am

SW wrote:Incidentally, how do Inhabitation mages get even more badass than Materialization mages? Is it something to do with how the bodies for Inhabitation mages can become insanely tough and powerful?

It comes from two things:

1. Flesh Forms can use the Matrix and thus can take full advantage of technical skills. Hell, you can even snag targets who already have technical skills.

2. Inhabitation Spirits don't use up services to do stuff, so you can basically fill up your bound spirit limit and go on a continuous pack-rampage all the time.

Yeah, you lose Astral Shortcut entirely, so you have to be able to get your spirits to physically infiltrate any place you want them to go. And that sucks. But they can interact better with the real world and come in a pack of five.

-Username17

Silent Wayfarer · Post by **Silent Wayfarer** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:10 am

Man, the whole Inhabitation thing (Flesh Form / Hybrid Form / True Form) reminds me of the Dragon King Olchilike in Exalted, where the Dragon Kings (normally weaker than most Solars) fused with a fairly potent combat deity via the Ride Charm and the two of them proceeded to rape face with impunity. Unfortunately the mage I'm running is a weedy little elf girl, so possessing / inhabiting myself won't do much. But I suppose you could animate corpses and such via Possession... if they were lying around.

Sir Neil · Post by **Sir Neil** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:33 am

You're playing Shadowrun. There should be no shortage of corpses lying around. In fact, they often deliver themselves right to your door.

BTW, Wayfarer, your sig is awesome.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:28 pm

Is that correct: Both Materialisation Mages and Possesion Mages can summont inhabitation spirits?
You can give the spirit one additional power per 3 (?) power points (<-- Can't find the text at the moment).

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:43 pm

Inhabitation is an option available for the Ally Spirits of any tradition, but it's otherwise available and mandatory for characters from Inhabitation Traditions. Which is mostly just the Insect Mages, but they keep nearly printing other ones.

-Username17

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:01 pm

Creating an Ally Spirit requires the Ally Conjuration Metamagic (from Street Magic), a formula you can make by working your Arcana skill for a few days, and a lot of Karma/BP. It's pretty much your one fully supported option out there for Inhabitation Spirits without being either an Ares corp employee or KOS almost everywhere if someone finds out your tradition.

There's also the advantage that an Ally Spirit can Inhabit things other than living people.

You might also be able to roll your own Inhabitation tradition, which could allow things like inhabitation of inanimate objects without using up an Ally. Could be interesting.

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:35 pm

Thanks, found the part about one power per 3 power points.
Its only optional powers from an list.

btw. anyone got the new Runner Compendium?

Got mine at the Essen'er Spielemesse.
My next Char. will be an Werfox Mageadept.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:39 pm

Korwin wrote:btw. anyone got the new Runner Compendium?

Frank: Unwired was the worst book you've made.
AncientHistory: Be fair, Runner's Companion was our worst book.

And there are no "werefoxes." There are shapeshifters. Who are foxes. And have the magic power to turn into elves.

-Username17

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:17 pm

Well it was my (lazy) translation from German

But if my reading is correct, they can only turn into humans.

I was a little surprised that they gave rules for playing vampires & co.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:35 pm

They turn into metahumans. Metahumans with pointy ears and high Charisma and Agilities who have lowlight vision. They turn into elves.

But while there are rules for making a Vampire character, or a Free Spirit character, or an AI character, I wouldn't call those rules playable. That book is shit.

Seriously, Runner's Companion was so shitty that I haven't bought any of the subsequent source books. I literally do not know what was in Ghost Cartels because Runner's Companion was so badly written.

-Username17

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:01 pm

Hmm translation error?
In my German version: ...Fuchs: Fuchs-Gestaltwandler behalten in menschlicher [human] Gestalt ihren Fuchsschwanz...

The new Critter-Power "Gestalt wandeln" [Change shape] talks about Metahumans, but unter Shapechanger-Powers they talk only about Change shape (human).

Seriously, Runner's Companion was so shitty that I haven't bought any of the subsequent source books

The biggest problem I see is in the Regeneration Power (the reason I'm so hot on the shapechangers).

But I didnt read the AI's rules, because Matrix & Co is NSC territory for us (no interest).

Drakes seems a little underpowered to me.
Why did they dig out the Priority system from its grave?

Do you have a "Dont touch this" list.

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:41 pm

Korwin wrote:Hmm translation error?
In my German version: ...Fuchs: Fuchs-Gestaltwandler behalten in menschlicher [human] Gestalt ihren Fuchsschwanz...

The new Critter-Power "Gestalt wandeln" [Change shape] talks about Metahumans, but unter Shapechanger-Powers they talk only about Change shape (human).

Don't think there's a translation error - my English PDF copy says effectively the same thing, Change shape (human), though there's an optional rule for other-metatype metahuman forms.

Maybe he meant "effectively the same as elves for all intents and purposes"? O_o

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:38 am

It totally says human form. It's just that the giveaways that let you know it's not really a human happen to be elvish metahuman traits. No one in the world would think they were dealing with a human, because they have an elvish label to put on pointy eared people.

-Username17

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:31 pm

Did I get this right, a Possesing Spirit must make an opposed check even if the subject wants to be possesed?
So all Int possesing-traditions sucks at selfpossesing because they have (hopefully) high Int and Will?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:41 pm

You can skip the test on willing prepared vessels.

So you can always possess yourself no problem.

-Username17

Korwin · Post by **Korwin** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:45 pm

Thanks, had me worried.