The Gaming Den

I've got a player in a Tome game I'm running eager to play the Thief-Acrobat class. Except, that I dunno, it feels a bit lack-luster when compared to things that came out after Dungenomicon.

Someone here mentioned changing thier BaB to full (either Kaelik, or Catharz? I honestly can't remember). Which seems reasonable.

Are there any other recommendations for modifying the class? This is going to be a 16th level human character. Probably with maxed int, con and dex.

Judging__Eagle wrote:Someone here mentioned changing thier BaB to full (either Kaelik, or Catharz? I honestly can't remember). Which seems reasonable.

I did. It's possible Kaelik did as well; it foesn't take a genius to come up with that fix. Getting the full BAB with attacks and combat feats is actually enough for most newbie players, which is what the fix was aimed at. IT doesn't put them on the same tier as fighters with well-selected feats or wizards, but it does enough to keep them from feeling useless.

Judging__Eagle wrote:Are there any other recommendations for modifying the class? This is going to be a 16th level human character. Probably with maxed int, con and dex.

The thief-acrobat is a charger. You use mercurial charge and your crazy jump check to flank and then leap way over your foe, and come crashing down for triple damage + sneak attack. You'll have Weapon Finesse, so that's three times 1.5 times (two-handed long staff) your Dex mod. In combat, things that make charging more fun make the character more fun. Juggernaut is surprisingly good.

Getting pounce would be a big deal.

Other than that, you can basically run around at top speed completely hidden and disabling traps like crazy.

Full BAB does help their DPS (that extra attack). If one took Elusive Target (and why not), they could use that self-flanking ability to keep up the sneak attack all the damn time.

Maybe a speed increase, too, considering at that level, so many enemies are approaching Bigmcfuckenlargehuge and take up some serious spaces.

Well ... Thief-Acrobat does have the whole Evasion thing going for it, so you might as well have the character pick up a Starmantle Cloak and be pretty much immune to weapon damage.

Also have him pick up a continuous Collar Of Umbral Metamorphosis and add in a Tome-ified version of Darkstalker so the character can make full use of his stealth.

I'd support a full BAB.

NineInchNall wrote:Starmantle Cloak

Two things.
1) Fuck you for bringing up 'half damage to everything ever and complete immunity to any creature without an actual magic weapon, but just 'penetrates as magic'
2) That's not how evasion works.
3) Fuck you for bringing up starmantle cloaks. It's that stupid.

ubernoob wrote: 3) Fuck you for bringing up starmantle cloaks. It's that stupid.

I don't like agreeing with ubernoob, but still. This.

Eh, I dunno. A starmantle cloak is really pricey.

Unless you're a thinaum user, or a sould-binder of some kind, you won't get the resources to buy such an expensive item until later in the game. So starting at level 11, it's 'possible', but by level 16 it is merely 'likely'.

Being immune to 'weapon damage' is something that a lot of characters in Tomes can already get. Wizard of the Lost Mysteries can get a DR of "X/Adamantine, where X is Unlimited" with their capstone Stoneskin. However, a RoW Barbarian is probably rocking some sort of DR, in addition to natural DR. The RoW barb tends to have low armour; and relies on DR and HP to keep them sustained during combat; while their Fast Healing helps to patch them up from one fight to the next.

Those are both the same as "immune to weapon damage", except that we're putting the "immunity" into play, instead of the "taking of damage, then hand-waving it away if you survive the fight".

At higher levels, a Starmantle cloak on one character is worse for party survivability than having a person who has, and can use a Staff of Healing, but it's still great for personal survivability.

In a level 16 game, I'm probably going to be seeing the equivalent from the other characters. Either they can heal up more than they could ever take damage; or they are just plain old hard to kill/destroy.

Of course, directed with attack rolls, energy attacks, tend to be pretty good at hitting 'dodgy' characters in D&D; so it's not like they're completely invulnerable; and fort, and will saves are still their weak points.

ubernoob wrote:Two things.
1) Fuck you for bringing up 'half damage to everything ever and complete immunity to any creature without an actual magic weapon, but just 'penetrates as magic'
2) That's not how evasion works.
3) Fuck you for bringing up starmantle cloaks. It's that stupid.

Two?

NineInchNall wrote:

ubernoob wrote:Two things.
1) Fuck you for bringing up 'half damage to everything ever and complete immunity to any creature without an actual magic weapon, but just 'penetrates as magic'
2) That's not how evasion works.
3) Fuck you for bringing up starmantle cloaks. It's that stupid.

Two?

---

K wrote:I'd support a full BAB.

Excellent, we can see about getting it changed for the next PDF.

Best.

Episode.

Ever.

Alright:

Reccomended build:

Hobgoblin? Human?

Stats were done as follows:

-All 6 stats (str, dex, con, int, wis, cha) start at 8
-Distribute 30 (possiblely as much as 35 or more pts) among those stats, on a one for one basis.
-You may subtract, or add as many points as you want; with a maximum of 18, and a minimum of 3 in any stat.
-Apply Racial Modifiers
-Apply age related modifiers, no, they're not balanced. There are work-around for almost every character in the game by level 16 though.


So, the following stats might work:

Str 13 (8 + 5 [Wish] )

Dex 28 (17 + 5 [W] + 6 [Item] = 28)

Con 26 (15 + 5 [W] + 6 = 26)

Int 33 (18 + 5 [W] + 6 + 4 [Level Boosts])

Wis 20 (9 + 5 [W] + 6 )

Cha 28 (17 + 5[W] + 6

Items:

1. Dex Gloves of Weapon Throwing/Returning [Tarnhelm's from FR; 10k gp + Scaling item Cost 15 k; a 25k item isn't too incredible for a lvl 16 character's main shtick)
2. Crown of Persuasion (+1/3 level to Cha based Checks)
3. Starmantle Cloak
4. Jump check Mithral Polestaff (let's say a quarter staff, in shape, and used properly, not all "robin hood movies" like; so it's held from one end or quarter, and swung out at people. If it's 10' long, and mithral, it will be light, and strong; this provides +16 to jump checks)
5. 
   

Feats
H -Whirlwind
1 -Two-Weapon Fighting
3 -Stealthy
6 -Ghost Step
9 -Improved Evasion
12 - Weapon Finesse//Clever Fighting (dex, or Int based to-hit)
15 - Combat Looting ("+16: You can take 10 on Use Magic Device and Sleight of Hand checks.")