The Gaming Den

I'm looking at running some modern day investigative horror, probably either Delta Green or Wonderland, but the systems for both of those suck monkey balls. Does anyone have any suggestions for systems that can handle this type of game well? The key points I'm looking for are:

* Granularity at the normal human level
* Support for investigation style games within the system
* Combat should be dangerous. I'd like to avoid 1-hit deaths if possible though.

Of course, I'd also like the system to play smoothly, be balanced between characters and make sense math wise, but thats why I'm asking here

Any suggestions?

Call of Cthulhu.

aWoD or SR4

Nicklance wrote:Call of Cthulhu.

I thought Delta Green was, like, modern Call of Cthulhu?

setmonster wrote:

Nicklance wrote:Call of Cthulhu.

I thought Delta Green was, like, modern Call of Cthulhu?

Delta Green is indeed a setting for Call of Cthulhu. Since 2007, it has been available for the d20 and BRP versions of Call of Cthulhu - neither of which are particularly robust systems for running modern age games.

How much granularity do you want? Like, keeping track of different Strength scores like in aWoD, or keeping track of different numbers of intimidation related plot interventions like Gumshoe?

-Username17

GURPS is pretty good for realistic scaled games.

You could tone shadowrun down pretty easily and ditch the sci-fi and fantasy elements of the system.

GURPS is a little too crunchy for my taste, but it might appeal. Just remember, you're getting a massive toolbox, not a targeted game.

Sir Neil wrote:aWoD or SR4

Cool, I'll check these out. Do they provide a fun game experience without superpowers / cyberware though? As in, can the players be competent in different areas and distinct in play?

FrankTrollman wrote:How much granularity do you want? Like, keeping track of different Strength scores like in aWoD, or keeping track of different numbers of intimidation related plot interventions like Gumshoe?

I've never tried a system with "Metagame" elements such as Fate's Aspects or Gumshoe's investigation points. Does anyone have any reports of how these work in play? I'm a little worried they might highlight the fact its "only a game" and disrupt the immersion.

Fun without superpowers? Those words don't belong together. They're no worse than other games I suppose.

Sir Neil wrote:Fun without superpowers? Those words don't belong together.

Agreed. You can only have so much fun if your characters are regular humans. SR4 is pretty close to "normal" though.

Twilight: 2013 worked pretty well for me.

Though it was by virtue of players who didn't want to read the rules (the condescending type) a very stripped down version.

I don't have the book on me - but it should meet every requirement you had.

The Traveller system might pay off too. You'd have to run Tech Level 7 or 8 or so and phase out the sci-fi aspects.

It's probably too simplistic for your needs though. It's pretty rules-light as far as mechanics go, and I don't know how you'd do character generation without massively re-writing the lifepaths.

At that point, I'd probably just shunt you back to GURPS.

I really don't have a lot of options in RPGs that reflect "normal human" power levels very well aside from Call of Cthulhu and *maybe* Dark Heresy (though I hate the dice mechanics of that game).

Hollow Earth Expedition. Pulp fantasy RPG where players are humans, and usually non-magical (the magic/psy rules are bad, but easily avoided). It isn't overly realistic, but it does alright for investigation games, and combat resolves fairly quickly (can be deadly, but outright 1-shot deaths are unlikely).

It's much like aWOD (with a less tight rules engine and a couple poorly thought-out stats) using a d6-TN4 (1d2) instead of d6-TN5 dicepool system. So more successes, smaller dice pools... also can use custom d8 dice to simulate 1d2, 2d2, and 3d2 to really cut down the dice rolled.

I think aWOD is a better system, but HEX does come in pretty, pretty books that you can buy so that is a plus.

GURPS has that, though there's alot of one-hit-kills in a gritty world.

I loved GURPS Traveller. That's got alot of nittygritty.

-Crissa

Shadowrun seems to be a pretty solid system, despite not being my cup of tea. Remove the elves and magic and you're good to go.

So is Shadowrun>After Sundown for a Delta Green equivalent campaign? There isn't much in the way of social combat, which seems to be AS's strong point over SR.

Speaking as a wilfully ignorant fanboy, beyond the mechanics not actually giving much help for social combat, the fact that reading d100 as 2d10 is even more potentially confusing than it sounds, and the limits of d100 roll under, have I missed any gaping holes in Unknown Armies?

Well, that and the fact it only really meets the granularity at human level & combat being dangerous without everybody being 1-hit wonders, but it doesn't have anything I can recall offhand to make it difficult to bolt on an investigative minigame if finer rules are desired.

Omegonthesane wrote:Speaking as a wilfully ignorant fanboy, beyond the mechanics not actually giving much help for social combat, the fact that reading d100 as 2d10 is even more potentially confusing than it sounds, and the limits of d100 roll under, have I missed any gaping holes in Unknown Armies?

Well, that and the fact it only really meets the granularity at human level & combat being dangerous without everybody being 1-hit wonders, but it doesn't have anything I can recall offhand to make it difficult to bolt on an investigative minigame if finer rules are desired.

Characters fail quite a lot in Unknown Armies, not great for an investigative game. Which is weird, because UA partially was an investigative game.

TheWorid wrote:

Omegonthesane wrote:Speaking as a wilfully ignorant fanboy, beyond the mechanics not actually giving much help for social combat, the fact that reading d100 as 2d10 is even more potentially confusing than it sounds, and the limits of d100 roll under, have I missed any gaping holes in Unknown Armies?

Well, that and the fact it only really meets the granularity at human level & combat being dangerous without everybody being 1-hit wonders, but it doesn't have anything I can recall offhand to make it difficult to bolt on an investigative minigame if finer rules are desired.

Characters fail quite a lot in Unknown Armies, not great for an investigative game. Which is weird, because UA partially was an investigative game.

Assuming sig checks for clue finding - good point, you would need to handwave that the party keep getting to Notice things until you get bored. Of course, they do also codify auto-passing on tasks that don't have much dramatic tension like "find the plot-vital clue while not under immediately measurable time pressure", so there's at least a resort other than abject handwavium.

Spot Clue is bullshit. It's a skill tax that means the whole party sits around with their thumb up their ass if they blow it.

The Gumshoe system is one attempted fix. Another is say fuck it, perception is strictly Detect Ambush/Sneak Attack. Finding clues happens by a combination of MTP pixelbitching and straight MC fiat.

As for system, Unknown Armies is a lot less terrible than CoC/BRP. I ran a very succesful DG campaign using GURPS.